I am totally disappointed with this new bond issue that will most certainly make our taxes go up soon. From the year 2000 to 2007 my taxes have tripled here in this county. That isn't even counting what this new tax will do. If tax would keep going up at that rate, in another 8 years I wouldn't be able to afford to be a property owner here. Although I had decieded long before this bond issue to move from this area, it is a done deal now. I have been a life long member of this community and was born in Arkcity Memorial Hospital My children were born here, but there comes a time when all things must come to an end. Good paying industry has gone from this area, and so must I. I have to follow work, and a good paying job. There will be those who say, with an education there are jobs to be had here. I know of many that have had to leave this area because there were no good paying jobs for those who have an education. There are many who have only a high school education, Will they be able to keep up with the high cost of living and high tax? There are many jobs here for those high school graduates with low pay, just as there are many for those who don't have a high school education, but it is difficult to raise a family on the wage you make at a fast food restraunt. But that's ok, with food stamps I am sure the other citizens of the state really don't mind picking up the slack. This post is not meant to be a "poor me" post. I don't feel bad about leaving here.This post is a statement. A warning if you will. To those of you in Cowley County that insist on not seeing things as they really are or can be. I believe you will have a rude awakening soon...if not sooner, later. Times as we know it are going to change. With fuel prices going up, going higher as time goes on. And with that comes food prices going up, because of the fuel prices for transporting and farming these goods. Meat prices going up because we are using the corn once fed to cattle to make fuel, hence higher meat prices. Now add to that heating and cooling cost, insurance ect.... Call it what you will, pessimist, bad attitude, what ever, I am a realist. Times are changing. Get out of debt, learn to be self sufficient. Teach your children to do the same. Just for fun I have attached a poll. Lets see what others think as well.
Yes, I do feel overtaxed too, but here is a copy of my thoughts from the acflipside.blogspot.com........ There is only 1 big reason I voted yes on this issue and that is because I know that eventually in a few years, the schools will be asking on a bond issue again. Lets say it didn't pass this time, but probably next time it would. MY theory is...get it done now, because next time it will cost even more! No, I am not happy my taxes will go up again, but in the long run, it is cheaper now then it would be even next year at this time. Also, any reasonable thinking adult should realize that you can estimate the cost of the project all you want, but it will always be a different number in the end, since the price of goods are always on the rise!
There should be little doubt that with the average income in this town, and the average property values, our taxes AND utilities are WAY too high. Why do we pay more than other towns of the same demographics? Why do we pay so much for water, when we live between two rivers? People in Las Vegas pay less for water than we do, and they're in the desert!
Your right industry in this town has gone. There are few good paying jobs for both the educated and uneducated. This is something as a community we need to focus on. We need to start looking in to how we can bring the outside dollars in. I hope you enjoy your new home. As for me I've been out in the world I've discovered it's not where you are it's who you are. My question to you is how involved in the city were you? Were you working with the city council to try and come up with ways to pay for the much needed city improvements without raising taxes? Or did you just sit back and complain to your neighbors about what "they" are doing wrong. I think the city would benefit more if some of the "they" people became the "us" Yes, the taxes here are high. Yes, they are going up. Now its time we focus on how to better the community. So maybe more people like you wont feel the need to leave.
Get out of debt is right! Another thing we all need to do is put 2 months salary in the bank for a safety net. Bad times could come any time. Be prepared!
Interesting enough, when this town was just a baby and not "on the grid" our local power was generated by the "power canal" which ran between the two rivers. The canal system would not be enough for our city today, but wouldn't it be great to be back off the grid? I wish Ark City could invest in some local energy like wind power. I'm sure the initial investment would be un-doable and I'm just dreaming here. It just seems to me like this could be some kind of draw to our city. Cheaper utilities would be important to me if I was looking to move. If done right, could possibly entice some industry as well.
Alternative energy will be the next big thing and I think it would be cool for Ark City to be first in line.
Anyway, back to the school bond... All we can do now is hope for the best. Personally, I hope they take care of this new investment in our schools. This is a lot of money, and I'd hate to see it all go to waste in the next 20-25 years. I hope they have the budget necessary for proper maintenance. Also, I hope the kids appreciate what they are being given and treat it with respect.
Your right industry in this town has gone. There are few good paying jobs for both the educated and uneducated. This is something as a community we need to focus on. We need to start looking in to how we can bring the outside dollars in. I hope you enjoy your new home. As for me I've been out in the world I've discovered it's not where you are it's who you are. My question to you is how involved in the city were you? Were you working with the city council to try and come up with ways to pay for the much needed city improvements without raising taxes? Or did you just sit back and complain to your neighbors about what "they" are doing wrong. I think the city would benefit more if some of the "they" people became the "us" Yes, the taxes here are high. Yes, they are going up. Now its time we focus on how to better the community. So maybe more people like you wont feel the need to leave.
My answer to you is no place in my post did it say I was a city dweller, so NO I didn't need to get with my city council and try to make city improvements without raising taxes. Any property I had in the city I sold long ago...with reason.... And NO, to answer your question, I didn't just sit back and complain to my neighbors because I was busy working and raising children and 8 years ago I had a great job in this county. So yes, "new in town", go for it, change the world around you. Rally all your "us" people around and I will be watching to see how well you do here. All the while I will be getting out of debt and preparing for hard times, but I won't be paying for your foot ball stadium.
And "thankyou",I am going to enjoy my new home, you can bet your bottom dollar. I am moving to a state that will give you tax breaks if you live in the house you are being taxed on, so only people with rentals pay the higher tax. And you only pay tax once on the vehicles you drive. Where there are many jobs that are for the taking, all you have to do is want to work. I personally believe that this is all bigger than you, or your "us' team. Jump right in there. And I wish for you the best in your "world". From the poll it looks like at least 80% so far feel like they are taxed too heavily. You have a big job ahead of you
I am totally disappointed with this new bond issue that will most certainly make our taxes go up soon. From the year 2000 to 2007 my taxes have tripled here in this county. That isn't even counting what this new tax will do. If tax would keep going up at that rate, in another 8 years I wouldn't be able to afford to be a property owner here. Although I had decieded long before this bond issue to move from this area, it is a done deal now. I have been a life long member of this community and was born in Arkcity Memorial Hospital My children were born here, but there comes a time when all things must come to an end. Good paying industry has gone from this area, and so must I. I have to follow work, and a good paying job. There will be those who say, with an education there are jobs to be had here. I know of many that have had to leave this area because there were no good paying jobs for those who have an education. There are many who have only a high school education, Will they be able to keep up with the high cost of living and high tax? There are many jobs here for those high school graduates with low pay, just as there are many for those who don't have a high school education, but it is difficult to raise a family on the wage you make at a fast food restraunt. But that's ok, with food stamps I am sure the other citizens of the state really don't mind picking up the slack. This post is not meant to be a "poor me" post. I don't feel bad about leaving here.This post is a statement. A warning if you will. To those of you in Cowley County that insist on not seeing things as they really are or can be. I believe you will have a rude awakening soon...if not sooner, later. Times as we know it are going to change. With fuel prices going up, going higher as time goes on. And with that comes food prices going up, because of the fuel prices for transporting and farming these goods. Meat prices going up because we are using the corn once fed to cattle to make fuel, hence higher meat prices. Now add to that heating and cooling cost, insurance ect.... Call it what you will, pessimist, bad attitude, what ever, I am a realist. Times are changing. Get out of debt, learn to be self sufficient. Teach your children to do the same. Just for fun I have attached a poll. Lets see what others think as well.
Well said Elee, Good luck on the finding jobs and happiness somewhere else. I agree it will not be long before taxes take the wjole pay check out of everyones pocket. I wonder how the vote was for those who are working the min. wage jobs, the cost of education for thier kids just got higher and for sure if they are property owners. It was just put out this week that most people in America has lost most of the equity in the american homes. And that forclosure is still on the rise and still yet people still want to raise taxes. Maybe they just want to widen the gap fromthe middle class. I just hope that those who voted this end will keep a watchful eye on the admin. salery for the next few years or twenty and prevent them from giving themselves any substanial raise's with any part of the tax money coming from this venture. I would also hope the USD470 board will keep all accounts of spending on this venture transparent to the public as the State REP. for Ark City fought for. We cannot stop the venture but we can get those who illegally try to profit from this out pf the way so those unwarrented raises like the one with the county got
Who ever said that you a neighbor has not done anything for my kids was wrong! Through taxes like this one everyone should have the right to say they supported someone eles's child in one way, just a shame we can not write them off our taxes as dependents
There should be little doubt that with the average income in this town, and the average property values, our taxes AND utilities are WAY too high. Why do we pay more than other towns of the same demographics? Why do we pay so much for water, when we live between two rivers? People in Las Vegas pay less for water than we do, and they're in the desert!
So, What does water cost the average homeowner in Vegas? Do you have any stastics?
__________________
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
Greenpiece, thank you for acknowledging my post, yes, I am just getting prepared for what comes. Not only for myself but for my children and grandchildren. Even though I have taught them self preservation, when times get harder it is better to be close to family. And that is where I am headed. To be closer to family and my work. I do already have a good job where I am moving to. I have been commuting for some time now. Time to move on.
Motherof2, it is wise as well to get two months wages saved. I know from your posts that you have young ones. Do as I have taught mine. How to till the ground and produce food on thier own and preserve it. How to make bread, how to hunt if need be. You would be doing them a huge service. I know you will, it is in your makeup.
SG, Hang in there buddy, keep the faith. You have strong beliefs and that will carry you far.
Callus, My job where I am moving is a stable one although I have learned that you can never feel too stable after working at more than one Cowley County job that has either closed or layed off. You are right about widening the gap from poor to middle class. I am not too sure that the middle class will even be an option soon. We will have rich and poor. When I googled the pay range of a middle class person in the US I was astonished. Do it, it will scare you. Good luck to you as well!
Backintown, Welcome back to town. You get on the "us train" and ride it right on down those tracks. Good luck, if all of the people you say are negative left town you wouldn't have many neighbors. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. He knows more about it than you do.
Just a final note, when making some calls this morning to get some info on my real estate. I called a Winfield realitor looking for some info. She looked up what my tax was for the property I have, and told me it was high. She said one reason is the mill levy in my area. She told me she owned property in the county in the Winfield area and thought hers was unusally high...till she saw what mine was. She agreed with me. Tax in my area is too high.
We all hear that the middle class is a dieing breed. I believe they will fade away for a time, but in the end will be the only ones left standing.
Worse come to worse, the government will no longer be able to support the poor. If they do not learn to fend for themselves, they will starve to death.
The rich man will lose his company, his tax breaks and will not know how to fend for himself either. They do not teach "grit" at Harvard.
My opinion, it will be the good old country boys and working men and women who will always be strong. We are not afraid to get up in the morning, put our boots on and do what must be done. We are the ones who will know how to produce and hunt our own food. We are not sitting around waiting on someone else to fix our problems. We are not afraid of a little blood, sweat and tears. We are what makes America strong! We are the ones who will not let this country sink!
There should be little doubt that with the average income in this town, and the average property values, our taxes AND utilities are WAY too high. Why do we pay more than other towns of the same demographics? Why do we pay so much for water, when we live between two rivers? People in Las Vegas pay less for water than we do, and they're in the desert!
So, What does water cost the average homeowner in Vegas? Do you have any stastics?
Nope, no statistics (I'm too lazy to search right now), but I know someone who moved from here to there that told me that it was cheaper there... that's why I mentioned it.
I know it doesn't look good, but it is not a sure thing that McCain will lose. I know a lot of people, and I suspect you are one of them, who want to continue with the Republican policies that have been in place for for awhile, ie. the wars, and maybe expanding to Iran, the job outsourcing, the evisceration of small towns, foreign trade deficits, U.S. government buying foreign made products, even military goods, etc. If they all got together, they could elect McCain and it would all continue just as it has. George W. and George H.W. have both given their support to McCain, and I'm sure Reagan and Nixon would too, if they were alive. Ann Coulter would continue to be cool by Hillary bashing and might still have a career. (Ever wonder why Limbaugh supports Clinton? His future is a dead duck with McCain. CYA)
That is the really cool thing about democracy. McCain does have a chance. A fair chance. So don't give up. Trust America to see and vote what is best for the country.
At this point, McCain is not yet a loser. Give him a chance. The decision will get there soon enough.
"We are the ones who will know how to produce and hunt our own food. We are not sitting around waiting on someone else to fix our problems"
First step is to recognize that the feds have pretty much torpedoed the working man with trade agreements. Second is to remember Herbert Hoover. When the nation was in the worst of the depression, he advised people to make Victory Gardens to support themselves and the government passed out seed packets. Thousands died of starvation from that decision of benign neglect. Hoovervilles sprouted everywhere, even in Ark City. It is not a solution.
America can't exist without the populist worker, the hard working not complaining person who puts in the sweat off his brow and the flex of his back, every single day, day in and day out: you know,.... the Mexicans (just kidding).
It doesn't matter how hard we work. If the government continues with the current trade policies it is like trying to swim with a boulder.
Lagonda wrote It doesn't matter how hard we work. If the government continues with the current trade policies it is like trying to swim with a boulder.
Thank you Lagonda, that is exactly how I feel. Only that is now for me, not later. Swimming with a boulder. Very good term to explain it with.
And just think when HILLARY or OBAMA get elected, your taxes are going to go up even more!!!
Well considering all the money we've spent in Iraq, I would assume a tax increase will be inevitable, especially if this economic stimulus package fails as I believe it will do to the fact that most people will use the money to pay off the debt they are.
Of course if your taxes go up to fund Universal Healthcare and lower cost for secondary education, I'm pretty sure you would come ahead in that trade. Also, most of this goals could be accomplished with a redistribution of funds rather than more taxes.
Or you could just become a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, then you wouldn't ever have to worry about you're taxes going up (or paying taxes at all). You could utilize the 'trickle down effect' where you spend all your money of foregin goods and somehow help the american people.
The fact is both Hilliary and Obama plan on taxing the big companies and top percentile of the economy more...where as the republicans are in bed with the big companies and top percentile. Seeing as this is the Ark City area, I'm pretty sure none of us have to worry about these taxes.
FYI- Because we're not taxing enough, by the year 2015 Social Security fund will start running a deficit, 2030 the system will collapse without significant change. So assuming you're under 50, I would considerdumping as much more as possible into a retirement account.
__________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
If you are going to dump money into a retirement account, I would make sure it wasn't high risk! We have lost a LOT of money since the beginning of the year.
Looking at the city pay scale as explained from an ex City employee there seems to be some very disturbing difference from the workers and the Superintendants
Workers average $9.00-$12.00 pr hr $18---$25 thousand yearly
Superintendants are paid salary $48-$60 thousand yearly
Why so much difference between the workers and the management, I know there needs to be some space between management and the labor, but WOW this is crazy, maybe that is why our utilities are so high,, someone needs to look into this
Ohhhhhh--- Patrick I think base wages are public knowledge , could you post the written wage classifications, I think I seen them in the traveler here a while back, maybe James can quarry them up for us, I would sure like to see if what I am hearing is fact.
Looking at the city pay scale as explained from an ex City employee there seems to be some very disturbing difference from the workers and the Superintendants
Workers average $9.00-$12.00 pr hr $18---$25 thousand yearly
Superintendants are paid salary $48-$60 thousand yearly
Why so much difference between the workers and the management, I know there needs to be some space between management and the labor, but WOW this is crazy, maybe that is why our utilities are so high,, someone needs to look into this
Ohhhhhh--- Patrick I think base wages are public knowledge , could you post the written wage classifications, I think I seen them in the traveler here a while back, maybe James can quarry them up for us, I would sure like to see if what I am hearing is fact.
I don't see so much disparity as you want to put into it. Some of the positions, like water and sewer require degrees and licensing. There are few enough of these people and they are in need everywhere. These positions are not something we can do without. There is a huge difference between laborers and qualified supervisors and technicians.
If you care to compare, you will find that the wages in Ark City are similar to those elsewhere in the state.
Something else to keep in mind, supervisors tend to be salaried employees. Hourly employees get a lot of overtime ar various times of the year that more than make up the difference. Besides weather (wind, snow, ice...) where they are required to put in 12 hours per day and more, there are also events like the car show, Arkalalah, and others that require a lot of extra work. I think you will find that the annual wages you figured are substancially lower than what is actually paid.
I don't have the specific hourly wages, but I think you could find them on the city website, or you can get the information by asking at the city hall. If you want it public, I'm sure the newspaper could get them and print them (if they think it is news worthy).
I'm sure you will find that many employees don't think they get paid enough (city employees, or any other employee with any company). But the benefits are great and the job security is unbeatable.
That's Mrs. I love being Right and Rush will be fine no matter who wins -- he's been going strong for 20 years now so I'm not too worried about him. He's not supporting Hillary - he was asking everyone to vote for her to keep the rivalry between her and Obama going.
I believe everyone should pay their share of taxes, I don't believe in redistribuiton of wealth. If you want it, work for it. I don't think just because you make more money you should have to pay more of a % of taxes on it. And I don't want universal health care programs. We don't need more welfare in this society. And I am going to take care of myself in retirement, I'm not planning on Social Security doing that for me. I believe at one time it was a good program, but it's not going to be there for me later. I believe in taking care of myself, that's how I was raised.
