gang graffiti still there

motherof2 · Senior Member

gang graffiti still there

Patrick · Senior Member

The city parks department can not do anything about graffiti on private property. The Police department does not have a program for removing graffitti from private property, but sometimes they have a source for free paint to cover it up. That paint is donated and is not always available, and there is no choice in color. The city will not provide the labor to do the painting.

I have heard that it is important to clean it or cover it quickly to prevent the same or others from coming back to add to it. If graffitti appears in a neighborhood the best way to prevent further problems is for neighbors to work together to clean it up as quickly as possible, then work together to open up and light dark areas and perhaps start a neighborhood watch.

Notify police immediately. Officers will then know to drive by that neighborhood more often, though responding to other calls may limit that. Every little bit that the property owners, neighbors and police can do will make a difference. It might be very difficult to catch the culprits, but we can make it much more difficult for them.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Property owners can get assistance through the city government in removing graffiti from their property.
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When the Traveler printed this, it was taken that the city would help remove the graffiti. When my neighbor called, she was told that it would be done. I do not believe anyone has called her back to explain otherwise. Perhaps they should call her and explain.

As for me, I'm going to get my old clothes on and paint over it. I'm tired of looking at it. Not sure how much it will cost me, but it'll be worth it.

MB · Veteran Member

Oh now this is just nice. From todays paper...

Quote- The ordinance will give people 48 hours to remove the graffiti. If it is not removed, the city will do it and the owner will be charged a small fee.

In all my years in this town I never thought I would see the day when graffiti would be in issue in this town. As people have researched for us we know it's a mexican gang doing this, And now that is just another damn thing we have to pay for.... Ohh my blood is boiling! I'll tell you what- If I catch someone on my property all hell will break loose. It's time we stand up and say NOT IN OUR TOWN! You can call me a racist all you want- But we already have to put up with too much from illegals and enough IS enough!

S23246G · Senior Member

City may tackle graffiti

By JAMES JORDAN
Traveler Editor
news@arkcity.net

City Commissioners may pass an ordinance tonight to help people get graffiti removed from their property.

The commission meets at 7 p.m. today at city hall.

The city has had problems with graffiti recently, and some of that graffiti is related to gangs.

City Attorney Tamara Niles explained that police believe when one group puts its mark on a building, a rival group may retaliate by putting its own mark there. Police believe this could lead to violence between groups or gangs.

The ordinance will give people 48 hours to remove the graffiti. If it is not removed, the city will do it and the owner will be charged a small fee.

YEAH... THAT SOUNDS REAL FAIR!

Niles said graffiti is defined as something put on a piece of property without the owners knowledge or consent. Something put on a piece of property by the owner would be protected by free speech laws.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Pat, after I posted my comment I realised that it was raining. DUH!!! Maybe I'll wait until it clears up?
Anyway, I see that you are addressing this in the meeting tonight. I am very impressed! It seems odd to me that the homeowners do not take care of this problem right away. In my case, I believe the homeowners are out of town. However, they did come back recently to clean up everything but the graffiti. They were getting ready to rent the property. I asked them if it would be ok to paint their garage door. They said they did not have a problem with that.
Does this say anything about a lack of rental properties in this town, that someone would move in to a home hit with graffiti?
Anyway, love what you are doing. The only thing I would add is that if someone was found guilty of the crime, they should be expected to pay the homeowner back for any expenses occured for repairs to property (i.e. fees charged by city).

motherof2 · Senior Member

I know what you guys are saying! This was my first reaction, too. Why should we pay for something destroyed on our own property. Really, though... If your garage was spray painted tonight, I bet you would all have it painted over before the 48 hours was up. You know why? Because you wouldn't stand to let these groups win. You would march right out and show them that you will not stand for it and cover it up. I bet the next thing you would do is try to catch the guys who did it. Then you would make sure they paid for the damages. Right?
Odds are that you probably wouldn't catch the artists in the act, but I bet you'd darn sure try!

Another thing to think about. What if your neighbor's garage was painted. This garage faces your back door. Now, every time you go to your truck to take your kids to school you and your children have to look at it. I mean, it's right there! Now let's say it's months later and you are still staring at it. You are starting to get used to it, and that thought scares the heck out of you. You wonder why your neighbor does not care enough to take care of that? If you paint it without your neighbor's consent, you risk having charges pressed. What do you do?

Perhaps this ordinance is an attempt to see that it disappears one way or another.

I do believe that the chief of police led us astray with his statement in the paper, though. (or maybe the paper didn't quote him correctly?) Many in my neighborhood thought they were going to take care of the problem.

As far as the gang problem. I have a plan of my own to publicize this. I am going to go around and take pictures of the graffiti I have found in this town and post it all on acflipside.blogspot.com . I am also going to send out a few e-mails and ask a lot of questions. Let's put the pressure on these guys who are "marking their territory" and catch someone!

S23246G · Senior Member

You go Motherof2. Make some noise. Don't let them forget about it until they put some pressure on the little scumbag wannabe gangbangers. The cops won't do it on their own, unless they have a reason, or some outcry from the public.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Graffiti gone on my block! Came right off with paint thinner. Paint thinner was courtesy of my wonderful aunt.

Patrick · Senior Member

S23246G wrote:

You go Motherof2. Make some noise. Don't let them forget about it until they put some pressure on the little scumbag wannabe gangbangers. The cops won't do it on their own, unless they have a reason, or some outcry from the public.

I'm glad you are so sure of what the cops want to do. We have a maximum of 4 to 5 officers patrolling the whole town at any given time responding to calls and looking for trouble. With over 100 miles of street to cover inside the city limits. They work 12 hour shifts. They put a lot more effort and heart into resolving people's problems than most anyone knows.

OK, I know better, none of you care what they do, and you are all sure they are paid to write extra tickets and create their own laws. No matter what anyone thinks, there is no way, no matter how good they are or could be, that they can cover everything.

If there are reports in an area they will try to cover it more often. Try is the key word because people call in reports constantly which must be responded to. Speeders and drunk drivers cannot be ignored. When they do catch a problem they are tied up doing paperwork. But they do try to look to where they know there are problems.

The answer I've seen most often in other communities is neighborhoods working together. Neighborhood watch groups. People cleaning up the brush and hiding spots around their homes. Creating and improving lighting around your home. These culprits don't want to get caught and will not work where they will be seen. A good example is the south wall of the Chamber of Commerce. It was hit several time a week for a few weeks. They removed the tall bushes and added a motion sensor light and all of the graffiti ended.

I'm sorry, I know I've mentioned some of this before and it didn't seem to matter then. I don't see it will make a difference now. Some folks try and some don't.

I guess I'm still stuck on another thread. You can't put a shine on a turd.

joebrown · Member

I won't debate with Patrick how busy the police department is! You can't debate
when the standard reply is negativity. Maybe it's time for a Citizens Police Patrol, works great in Ponca City. Anyone interested? City Commission, Chief Wallace, Retired Citizens?

motherof2 · Senior Member

Ok, I'll bite. How does the citizens police patrol work and what can we do?

CALLUS · Veteran Member

I'm glad you are so sure of what the cops want to do. We have a maximum of 4 to 5 officers patrolling the whole town at any given time responding to calls and looking for trouble. With over 100 miles of street to cover inside the city limits. They work 12 hour shifts. They put a lot more effort and heart into resolving people's problems than most anyone knows.

**************************************************************

So
So Patrick if you choose to do JOB like one in law enforcement then one must be prepared to put in the hours on hours of paper work should they choose to write a ticket for every little thing they can. I know that the work is sometimes hard but the amount of paper work is directly connected to how much fear they want to invoke on the community to get everyone to the write thing. From what I here and see they have a lot of repeat offenders going to court for violations. If you are watching the same folks most of you time on patrol and you create a pattern of where you will most likely be while on patrol, you give time for other illegal things to go in other neighborhoods like graffiti paintings , which does not happen in just a few min. . For example it seems like since the sports club opened up on north 8th street that from Thursday nite to early Sunday morning that is where all the patrolling , I would wish to stop drinking and driving they would do the same for the country club folks in past years. But the choice of where to put the focus on for patrolling most of the time is the choice of the officer and then calls from the dispatch. ( I GOT ME A BUNCH TONIGHT JOE)And most often they choose to have a good report for themselves to the boss so they tend to lean toward the hot spots for the thing that pleases the boss the most and that is tickets and stops for the ARKANSAS CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT INDEX, WHICH REQUIRES SO MANY STOP AND CITATIONS TO PREVENT AN ACCIDENT in a month and that number changes everymonth depending on weather the previous month nuber was above or below the set index. This just makes a lot of paper work a must for the officers because some may think if one of my fellow officers:blankstare writes 15 tickets for tonight that I should write 20 to look as good or better. This type of stuff makes me think that the justice we should all have in our legal system here is not justice but justification for the department. And that resolves their problem first for job requirements first. another example was about two weeks ago two young lady's call asking for a ride home from Sally's place uptown because the parents did not show up on time, rather than getting away from searching for ticket to write to a place where they could actually help prevent two young ladies from who knows what they reply tell them to call the parents, why not after all that has happened kidnapping rape and murder in this town why not just take them home as a public service for Safety, what kinda response was that.

Just saying with all of that they go where they want to!!! And we already have Neighborhood Watch we watch them do a C grade job for an A grade pay!!

dddfan · Veteran Member

Motherof2
Here is a web site that may give you some information.
http://www.nacop.org/whatarecop.htm

Hope this helps.

motherof2 · Senior Member

In all my years in this town I never thought I would see the day when graffiti would be in issue in this town. As people have researched for us we know it's a mexican gang doing this, And now that is just another damn thing we have to pay for.... Ohh my blood is boiling! I'll tell you what- If I catch someone on my property all hell will break loose. It's time we stand up and say NOT IN OUR TOWN! You can call me a racist all you want- But we already have to put up with too much from illegals and enough IS enough!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From what I am seeing, it's not ALL mexican gangs. Did some research:
http://acflipside.blogspot.com

I understand how you feel. We just have to make sure we are acting within the means of the law. Make sure you register to vote and go to the blog listed to find scorecards for your federal rep's. Best way to make some noise and find out how you are being represented.

S23246G · Senior Member

S23246G wrote:

You go Motherof2. Make some noise. Don't let them forget about it until they put some pressure on the little scumbag wannabe gangbangers. The cops won't do it on their own, unless they have a reason, or some outcry from the public.

Patrick wrote:

I'm glad you are so sure of what the cops want to do. We have a maximum of 4 to 5 officers patrolling the whole town at any given time responding to calls and looking for trouble. With over 100 miles of street to cover inside the city limits. They work 12 hour shifts. They put a lot more effort and heart into resolving people's problems than most anyone knows.

OK, I know better, none of you care what they do, and you are all sure they are paid to write extra tickets and create their own laws. No matter what anyone thinks, there is no way, no matter how good they are or could be, that they can cover everything.

If there are reports in an area they will try to cover it more often. Try is the key word because people call in reports constantly which must be responded to. Speeders and drunk drivers cannot be ignored. When they do catch a problem they are tied up doing paperwork. But they do try to look to where they know there are problems.

The answer I've seen most often in other communities is neighborhoods working together. Neighborhood watch groups. People cleaning up the brush and hiding spots around their homes. Creating and improving lighting around your home. These culprits don't want to get caught and will not work where they will be seen. A good example is the south wall of the Chamber of Commerce. It was hit several time a week for a few weeks. They removed the tall bushes and added a motion sensor light and all of the graffiti ended.

I'm sorry, I know I've mentioned some of this before and it didn't seem to matter then. I don't see it will make a difference now. Some folks try and some don't.

I guess I'm still stuck on another thread. You can't put a shine on a turd.

You don't need to explain to me what the cops do with their time. With all due respect, I would be willing to bet that I know more about it than you ever will.

But in my experience, most of the officer's time in this town is spent driving around looking for tickets to write (to fill their "goal" for the month), or responding to calls (and then the paperwork involved in those calls). If a problem is brought to their attention then they will try to follow up on it for a night or three, and then it will fall to the wayside. When I suggested to Motherof2 that she keep making noise, it was because the more people who get involved, and the more the police get annoyed, then the more effort they will put into ending the initial complaint that is the source of the aggravation. After all, nobody wants to look bad.

I realize that they are busy a lot of the time, but there are also a lot of nights when they have very little to do, and instead of sitting and waiting for a speeder to come by, they could drive around a little more in the areas that are being hit by the spray painting little scumbags.

Good advice on the lighting and bush clearing though. Those are very good suggestions. Especially the motion sensor lights. I have been meaning to install some for awhile now, and just never made the time. I will try to do that soon.

And no, they don't get paid more if they write extra tickets.

joebrown · Member

For Mother of 2. The web site dddfan posted is a very good informational
piece on the concept. If you have further questions will try to give you
an answer. Lets see is this brings any interest.

abc123 · Veteran Member

I surmise we got the standard response from our city leadership, It's your problem not ours! We cannot expect timely resolution from public servants without expecting to see them with arms outstreaching and palms up in request of yet another donation!

CALLUS · Veteran Member

S23246G wrote:

S23246G wrote:

You go Motherof2. Make some noise. Don't let them forget about it until they put some pressure on the little scumbag wannabe gangbangers. The cops won't do it on their own, unless they have a reason, or some outcry from the public.

Patrick wrote:

I'm glad you are so sure of what the cops want to do. We have a maximum of 4 to 5 officers patrolling the whole town at any given time responding to calls and looking for trouble. With over 100 miles of street to cover inside the city limits. They work 12 hour shifts. They put a lot more effort and heart into resolving people's problems than most anyone knows.

OK, I know better, none of you care what they do, and you are all sure they are paid to write extra tickets and create their own laws. No matter what anyone thinks, there is no way, no matter how good they are or could be, that they can cover everything.

If there are reports in an area they will try to cover it more often. Try is the key word because people call in reports constantly which must be responded to. Speeders and drunk drivers cannot be ignored. When they do catch a problem they are tied up doing paperwork. But they do try to look to where they know there are problems.

The answer I've seen most often in other communities is neighborhoods working together. Neighborhood watch groups. People cleaning up the brush and hiding spots around their homes. Creating and improving lighting around your home. These culprits don't want to get caught and will not work where they will be seen. A good example is the south wall of the Chamber of Commerce. It was hit several time a week for a few weeks. They removed the tall bushes and added a motion sensor light and all of the graffiti ended.

I'm sorry, I know I've mentioned some of this before and it didn't seem to matter then. I don't see it will make a difference now. Some folks try and some don't.

I guess I'm still stuck on another thread. You can't put a shine on a turd.
You don't need to explain to me what the cops do with their time. With all due respect, I would be willing to bet that I know more about it than you ever will.

But in my experience, most of the officer's time in this town is spent driving around looking for tickets to write (to fill their "goal" for the month), or responding to calls (and then the paperwork involved in those calls). If a problem is brought to their attention then they will try to follow up on it for a night or three, and then it will fall to the wayside. When I suggested to Motherof2 that she keep making noise, it was because the more people who get involved, and the more the police get annoyed, then the more effort they will put into ending the initial complaint that is the source of the aggravation. After all, nobody wants to look bad.

I realize that they are busy a lot of the time, but there are also a lot of nights when they have very little to do, and instead of sitting and waiting for a speeder to come by, they could drive around a little more in the areas that are being hit by the spray painting little scumbags.

Good advice on the lighting and bush clearing though. Those are very good suggestions. Especially the motion sensor lights. I have been meaning to install some for awhile now, and just never made the time. I will try to do that soon.

And no, they don't get paid more if they write extra tickets.

Better make sure you do not violate any city code for doing the wiring yourself . You neighbor just might not want that and turn you in. There are some people who it seems like try or like to keep the light down around their house so they can sleep without things flashing on and off all the time. bleh

motherof2 · Senior Member

Maybe that's why mine was busted less than a week after it was installed?

Patrick · Senior Member

CALLUS said:

Better make sure you do not violate any city code for doing the wiring yourself . You neighbor just might not want that and turn you in. There are some people who it seems like try or like to keep the light down around their house so they can sleep without things flashing on and off all the time. bleh

************************

Me personally, I sleep better knowing that flashing light is scaring people off. Though each of us has our own idea of what works best. I'd rather people didn't come around at all in the middle of the night, but it seems there are just enough to make it worth protecting my home. I haven't had anything taken, but there were tracks in my yard one night a few years ago. Recently there has been some graffiti on the building behind my home. I'll go the extra effort to scare them away or help them get caught. If enough homes and businesses make it difficult for these people to get their jollies maybe they will get caught, or better yet, go away.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Curious, what kind of punishment is dished out by our court system for "gang graffiti"? In some major cities, this is considered gang activity and comes with severe consequences. Has anyone ever been convicted in this town?

dddfan · Veteran Member

Mother of 2
Depending on which post you read, not many people around here get convicted of anything.
Can't get the county atty to prosecute anyone.
I don't know this for a fact, just what I read in the "paper".
Sound like Will Rogers?
Maybe, but I'm not.

Patrick · Senior Member

This would be another good instance to use ACCESS ARKANSAS CITY on the city's website.

I do remember a brief discussion during a work session where graffiti falls under vandalism. I don't remember the specifics, but I believe there are fines, and if I remember correctly, the culprits are responsible for cleaining up or paying for the damages. You should get more specific information from the website.

Patrick

Patrick · Senior Member

I'm not sure, but I think the county attorney is an elected official. Wasn't he on the election about 2 years ago?

Either way, if you are not satisfied with your county attorney and the job he is doing, you might contact your county commissioners. I try to respond to everything that is pointed my direction, I would think they would want to do the same. I hope they are even better at it than I am.

District 1	District 2	District 3
Dick Bonfy	Gary Wilson	Carmelita Clarkson
24011 141st Rd	31684 61st Ln	903 Holloway Lane
Winfield	Arkansas City	Winfield
(620) 221-4507	(620) 442-0025	(620) 221-2099
Email: dbonfy@skyerock.net	Email: swilson200404@sbcglobal.net	Email: cclarkson@sbcglobal.net

District 2 and 3 are up for re-election this year. That ought to make them a little more responsive.

Patrick · Senior Member

In case you don't know who your county commissioner is:

Commission District 1:
Dick Bonfy

Commission District 1 represents all those residents living in the townships of: East Creswell, Dexter, Liberty, Otter, Pleasant Valley, Sheridan and Tisdale. Also those residents of Winfield living in precincts: 1 East, 2 Central, 2 South, 2 West, 2 East, 5 East, 6th, 6A and 7th.

Commission District 2:
Gary Wilson

Represents all those residents living in the townships of: Beaver, Bolton, Cedar, Grant, Silverdale, Spring Creek and West Creswell. Also those residents of Arkansas City living in precincts: 2B, 2C, 2D, 3A, 3B, 3C, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D and 4E.

Commission District 3:
Carmelita Clarkson

Represents all those residents living in the townships of: Fairview, Harvey, Maple, Ninnescah, Omnia, Richland, Rock Creek, Salem, Silver Creek, Vernon, Walnut and Windsor. Also those residents of Arkansas City living in precincts: 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 2A and Winfield residents living in precincts: 1 West, 3 Ward, 4 Ward and 5 West

motherof2 · Senior Member

You go Motherof2. Make some noise. Don't let them forget about it until they put some pressure on the little scumbag wannabe gangbangers. The cops won't do it on their own, unless they have a reason, or some outcry from the public.

**************************************
Ok, I just had a visit tonight from our new neighborhood cop. I have recently volunteered for community watch and he came by to check on things and introduce himself. Guys, this was great! We had a very good conversation, and I am re-assured in our police department. I would recommend to anyone who has the time to volunteer for this. If they do not have us, they have no link to the people they serve. For those of you who do not have the time, use the new Access Ark City program. It works! You will get a response with follow up.

always_sabrina · Member

You asked who covered up the grafftti on the Ceramic Shop. It was the landlord's so called handyman. After receving a nice letter posted to the door by the code enforcement officer I left it up to the owner to take care of it because I moved to Bartlesville Okla. where the ecomomy is growing and my family can make a decent living instead of struggling for every penny in Ark City.

I felt that the grafftti should of been removed by the punks that did it. Its a little thing called restitution. But the culprits were never caught to my understanding. Its funny that the city gives homeowners 48 hours to remove it but theres graffitti on the water treatment buildings that have been there since the ones showed up on the shop thats still there. Why cant they take their own advice and clean it up on city property!

I'd had it with Ark City! It's going to end up like towns like Peru and Niotaize where there is only a handful of people that actully stay. My family got out before it was too late. Now I dont have to worry about what I might find when I pull up to the shop! I dont have to fear that if something ever happend to me while at the shop that no one would know until it was too late! My worries are now over and I can raise a family and own a bussiness that will prosper.

Good luck to those who stay behind and stick it out and to those who are smart and get out before it got too much worse!

motherof2 · Senior Member

sabrina, did you move because of the graffiti or were you already out of ark city when this happened?

always_sabrina · Member

I was still owned the shop when the graffitti started. The first one showed up a little before Thanksgiving and then a few days later the huge S showed up after that the 1st one got x'd out another replaced it. The day I got out of the hospital from giving birth to my twins is when the stuff on the backside happend. Most of these happend when there was bad weather. So it really amazes me that no one seen it happening! When I spoke with the police at first they said that when the culprits were caught they would have to paint over it but the last time I reported it I was told that they just needed my consent to have voulenteers remove it with donated paint. A few days after that I got letters posted on the doors that if it wasnt removed it would be done by the city for a charge. This angered me because the city hasnt even removed the graffitti of the water plant on South 5th St. so why should I be forced to do so!

Both my husband and I owned businesses in Ark City after a short vacation to Bartlesville to visit my dying father: we decided to make a move to a better town. One where the economy is growing and not dying. On another short visit to Bartlesville he was to able to obtain a job in one day vs. the months and years he'd searched in Cowley County. We then decided that Ark City had no longer become home when we dreaded hitting the city limits of Ark City. My husband had lived in Ark City most of his life and has family there so it was a very hard choice to make. In the end we chose life over death. If we had stayed in Ark City my husband would still be unemployed and struggling to make a business work. I would still be sitting for days at the shop with our only customer being a mentaly challenged man thats stench lingers long after he was gone.

I have no clue how my Grandfather was able to keep his business open in Ark City up until they day he died! It's not that I didnt try to make it in Ark City I DID! I had events for Childhood Cancer Awareness in which very little attended I also tried cute little gimics that should of worked, and even tried an internet store all of which failed. Some say that it was because the previous owner of the ceramic shop had ran the business into the ground. Others say that ceramics just are not popular any more. And then theres the people that said it was the town that its not fit for any small businesses to grow. I think its a little of all the above.

I feel that the city isnt doing enough to make it grow. Everyone complains about the negitivity but it's hard to be proud to say you live in Ark City. The city officials do not listen to citizens ideas and concerns. Instead they jump into projects that do little for the community other then put it more in debt. As for the illegals not enough is being done to control it. The drug problem has been out of hand for the 15 years I was there! When I was in High School one of the biggest druggies was the DARE COP! It's also a little concerning that some of the PD officers are the ones that were pot heads in high school. How are you supposed to feel safe knowing that?

I know that some people can change and are still judged on what they used to be. I know that in Ark City eveyone is labeled and put into catagories based on things such as race, sexual orination, and financial status. Case in point my younger sister was a troubled teen into drugs and fighting in the end I was labeled as a trouble maker as well even though I never was in much trouble. My Grandfather stood up to a fomer police officer when he said that I too was a druggie and trouble maker. I tried my best to save my family when I was only 16. I covered for my mother who was addicted to crank after her boyfriend got her hooked, I had to pick up my sister late nites at parties that were being busted, I had to cook,Clean and pay the bills that my mother forgot because she "forgot" all of this while going to school. When I attempted sucide on my 17th B'day I went to school and told them what I had done. They called my Mother in and she told them it was for attention and that I should finish out school. And guess what......I did! Not once did anyone step in and wonder what was really going on at home. How can anyone just let a child stay in school and finsh out the day knowing that the child had ingested lethal doeses of pain killers and washing them down with vodka found on the counter?

My mother is now sober after I made the decision to move with a father that I feared as a child. My sister really hasnt changed as much as I tried to help her. My mother moved us back to Ark City trying to escape the drugs and violance of Philidelphia. It turned out to be one of our families biggest mistakes. Ark City turned out to be no better then the big bad city of brotherly hate. All I'm trying to say is that Ark City needs to wake up and face the facts that everything is out of control. The war on drugs starts at the top! The fight against illegals starts with enforcing our laws on those who break the laws. You've got to get tough on the kids that are into the drugs and gangs. Parents need to take accountablity for their childs actions. It all starts at home! Be more involved in every childs life!