Skateboarders

Patrick · Senior Member

Skateboarders

paddedroom · Member

First of all, I would like to know what the penalty,or fine is for skateboarding on public property and downtown sidewalks. (If there is one.)
Then I would like to express how my teenager has "crashed and wiped-out" at the A.C. skate park because the equipment is shoddy. I've taken my son to many other city skate parks (including Winfield) and he praises the quality of design over Ark City's.
Therefore I do believe that if the skateboarders and bikers did have a decent park then that would indeed create a desire to be at the park and not on public property. NO MATTER HOW THEY DRESS OR THEIR APPEARANCE.
Kudos to the teens of Ark City for participating in their community meetings. Parents or not!

Elee · Veteran Member

Patrick Wrote:At Tuesday night's commission meeting there was a delegation of 30-40 teenagers asking for improvements to the skateboard park. They were respectful from the podium, and fairly quiet in the audience. They were able to make themselves clear about the problems with the existing skateboard park and the requirements for improvement.

I am glad to hear they are using the commission meeting to let thier concerns be known. To me it shows they are making an attempt to be a responsible citizen and let their needs be known.

I was a little surprised at the sight of them all. All wore long unkempt hair, old clothes, and quite a few had facial jewelry. It must be part of the clique as they were so similar in their appearance. The most surprising fact was that it appeared only 1 parent showed up. I might have missed one or two in the crowd, but I would have thought their parents would be more involved. I also found it interesting that almost all were regulars at the teen center.

Not knowing your age Patrick, I am so sure that if you were a child of the 70's or 80's the same kinds of comments could have been made about the hairstyles then. Though few continued on with the long hair from the 70's and the Mullets from the 80's. Yes, facial jewlery, tattoes and some have long hair now. Your generation gap is showing. I don't see what the way they looked like had anything to do with their being there to ask for revamping of the skate park. And I am so glad they have a teen center to go to. It is no secret that the teen agers in this town have very little to do. I see their trip to the commission meeting as an outcry for help. Children are an investment, not a hinderance.

My concerns, other than the lack of parents, was that none seemed to have any respect for the laws about riding on personal property or downtown sidewalks. The common answer was that they would not have to if they had a decent skate park. I can see the need and use, but I suspect they would still ride the sidewalk to and from the park.

I too had a child that was a skate boarder in the 80's and at that time there was no place for them to ride but the streets. When the city says they can't use the sidewalks, then they WILL be in the streets. At the time my son was riding his, there were no skate parks at all. Now I have a grandson that is riding his skateboard. I have taken him to the skate park here in the city once, it was in disrepair and somewhat dangerous for him (he is very small) so I decieded I would take my chances with him riding around home on the sidewalks. (He doesn't live in Arkcity).

I would like to see a new skateboard/bicycle park. I believe that the city should take some responsibility towards revamping the old or creating a new park. The best way to make it happen is for the young people to find information to help design the park and find ways of partnering and fundraising to pay for it.

I think in a perfect world the kids could find a way to do fundraisers for this. I tried to teach my kids to never judge people by the way they look, but, there are those who do. I am hoping that people will see these kids for who they are and not what they look like. And help them get the skate park they would like to have. I am hoping the city will assist them.

I see several different problems, and some interesting opportunities in this all. I would like to hear more about what other people think.

I would be interested in what kinds of problems you feel there will be, and just what kinds of opportunities there will be..right now they are at an impressionable age. If ignored, what kinds of signals are sent. Just a thought....

S23246G · Senior Member

My concern is... what happens if one of these kids gets injured on the rusty metal that exists there now? Would the city be libel if they decided to sue? I mean, if a pole in front of a restaurant is such a liability, surely a jagged piece of protruding metal must also be. I would think the city would try their best to avoid such an accident by fixing whats there, or closing the park. I sure don't want my tax dollars going to pay a lawsuit.

Patrick · Senior Member

S23246G wrote:

My concern is... what happens if one of these kids gets injured on the rusty metal that exists there now? Would the city be libel if they decided to sue? I mean, if a pole in front of a restaurant is such a liability, surely a jagged piece of protruding metal must also be. I would think the city would try their best to avoid such an accident by fixing whats there, or closing the park. I sure don't want my tax dollars going to pay a lawsuit.

Your concern is well founded. The problem is two-fold. The equipment was not of the best to begin with and is showing its age, but there is a lot of vandalism that is much worse on a daily basis. The parks department is there weekly trying to keep it in shape, but the vandalism happens faster than we can keep up with it. Part of the vandalism problem is the type of construction originally used, ie steel, in that it is can be pried apart and bent. I think it has been proven that concrete works better, lasts longer and is more difficult to vandalize, though there are some chips in the concrete too.

Patrick · Senior Member

It's amazing the responses about their appearance. I mentioned it because I was taught, and still believe, that when you ask for something you put your best foot forward. Is asking for this kind of help much different than going to church or looking for a job? Bathing and wearing decent clothes and combing your hair does affect how you are heard. It shows that you have respect for the group you are approaching or working with. I don't fault the young folks for that, they would do as they are taught. Maybe things have changed from my generation. The difference seems that my generation are the ones these young folks will be approaching about jobs in the next few years.

They did a good job. I think their parents might have been proud of them. I'm just not sure how many of those parents knew where their kids were that night. Maybe if their parents had been there that night they would not have been using their skateboards to jump the city hall steps, or off of the retaining wall in front of city hall. I think the main point here is not that the kids were doing those things, but that people don't see these things as a concern.

S23246G · Senior Member

I, for one, HATE it when I see these kids flying down the sidewalks downtown, without a care in the world, or any thought to the shoppers who might walk out of a door at any time, right into their path. I have had to stifle the urge to clothesline one of the little turds on many occassions.

I was always taught to show respect to adults, especially if I was asking them for something, or presenting something. And as for appearances, it does seem to show that many of them have very little guidance from their parents. But styles change, and what we wore in the 70's and 80's probably looked just as bad to adults as what these kids wear. I bet Patrick was rockin a mullet back then. haha (Business in the front... and PARTY IN THE BACK!) I confess to my mullet wearing days, though they are far behind me now, thank god.

But, it would be nice to have a new cement skate park WITH VIDEO CAMERAS... because many of those same kids who were at city hall are into much worse things than skateboarding on the sidewalks.

paddedroom · Member

According to ACPD, the fine for skating on public property is $25 plus $75 court costs. This seems like a great source of revenue that is not being utilized. By enforcing the skateboarding laws, the fines could pay a large portion of the costs towards rebuilding the current park or creating a new one. Repeat offenders of the law could also be assigned repair duties to the current skate park. When I peruse the police notes in the Traveler I see mostly reports of suspicious person calls and animal at large round-ups.(Not to mention the ever popular domestic violence and DUI reports.) Never anything about rogue skaters being punished for their disrespect of well dressed and neatly kempt citizens and general havoc on public property. The skaters that had the gumption to show up at the meeting are the ones that will use the improved park the most. I believe the headcount was 30-40. According to the law, that could amount to $3-4 thousand in fines if caught!
And remember, these people are potential future commissioners. biggrin

CALLUS · Veteran Member

S23246G wrote:

I, for one, HATE it when I see these kids flying down the sidewalks downtown, without a care in the world, or any thought to the shoppers who might walk out of a door at any time, right into their path. I have had to stifle the urge to clothesline one of the little turds on many occassions.

I was always taught to show respect to adults, especially if I was asking them for something, or presenting something. And as for appearances, it does seem to show that many of them have very little guidance from their parents. But styles change, and what we wore in the 70's and 80's probably looked just as bad to adults as what these kids wear. I bet Patrick was rockin a mullet back then. haha (Business in the front... and PARTY IN THE BACK!) I confess to my mullet wearing days, though they are far behind me now, thank god.

But, it would be nice to have a new cement skae park WITH VIDEO CAMERAS... because many of those same kids who were at city hall are into much worse things than skateboarding on the sidewalks.

Hate is such a harsh word to use, it might lead one into thinking that a personal may loom deep down inside of one like prejudice, racism, or just discontent for mankind. In my learning throughout history we have associated the most Hannis criminals with the word hate or hatred of. The words dislike, don't agree with, not understanding of, or don't like creates a more understandable and agreeable atmosphere around all subjects and people's. I'm not saying it should not be used but it can drive peoples attitude the wrong way and cause a lot of hostility when bought up time and time again !

CALLUS · Veteran Member

paddedroom wrote:

According to ACPD, the fine for skating on public property is $25 plus $75 court costs. This seems like a great source of revenue that is not being utilized. By enforcing the skateboarding laws, the fines could pay a large portion of the costs towards rebuilding the current park or creating a new one. Repeat offenders of the law could also be assigned repair duties to the current skate park. When I peruse the police notes in the Traveler I see mostly reports of suspicious person calls and animal at large round-ups.(Not to mention the ever popular domestic violence and DUI reports.) Never anything about rogue skaters being punished for their disrespect of well dressed and neatly kempt citizens and general havoc on public property. The skaters that had the gumption to show up at the meeting are the ones that will use the improved park the most. I believe the headcount was 30-40. According to the law, that could amount to $3-4 thousand in fines if caught!
And remember, these people are potential future commissioners.

Do your math one more time 25 x 40 = about $1000 in fines that could be collected if it would all go for fixing the park. Unfortunately it is not guaranteed that it would go for that cause. Just think if all the money in fines for DUI just went to educate people about driving under the influence of alcohol or even if all fines for domestic violence went to that where would we get funds for chasing down broken tail lights or dogs at large. Yes you do have a good thought about fixing it up but you must first find out where the money goes and then how to redirect it where you think it should go and that's just the fines, then you need to do the same with the court administration fee's which is with your figures another $3000 or so! Good luck trying to tell the people here what to do with your money.
Beside when they don't pay the fine within a specified period of time we have to arrest the and send them to jail and pay for for the gas and a meal and bed and then gas to bring them back down here and double the original fine which was not paid the first time etheir on that case or another case so the money is spent before it has been recieved (as set forth by our city commisioner's)

So only maybe $5 of the $25 will go toward fixing the ramps. Might as well leave it alone. Those fines are not the finanancial soulution to the problems look more into how the city budget is setup and spent! evileye

dddfan · Veteran Member

What happens when a skateboarder runs into someone, and injures them on the sidewalk downtown?
Does the property owner have the responsibility for the mishap, because they own the property?
Don't tell me the city has the resposibility, to make sure the sidewalks are safe, because we have laws, which are not encforced, but we should spend mega bucks for these kids to have a place to ride.
That doesn't hold water either, no one jumped up and said let's buy the drag strip so these guys will have a place to race, rather, let's ignore it maybe it will go away, and take the racers with it. The race track is a positive for this community, it generates income, taxes and tourism.
Someone went to all the troule to find out what the fines were for violation of the skateboard oridnance, but I don't think anyone found out how many citations were issued for those violations. While it is important for young people to get involved in local government, they need to realize that violating its laws, carries consequences, such as citations and fines.
These young people should police themselves, point out to their peers, that as long as they continue to break the law, it gives all of them a bad reputation, and does nothing to help their cause.
Buy the way, the monies that are generated from fines, that is returned to the city, goes into the general fund, to be dispursed as needed where needed. Not usually earmarked for specific projects.

S23246G · Senior Member

CALLUS wrote:

S23246G wrote:

I, for one, HATE it when I see these kids flying down the sidewalks downtown, without a care in the world, or any thought to the shoppers who might walk out of a door at any time, right into their path. I have had to stifle the urge to clothesline one of the little turds on many occassions.

I was always taught to show respect to adults, especially if I was asking them for something, or presenting something. And as for appearances, it does seem to show that many of them have very little guidance from their parents. But styles change, and what we wore in the 70's and 80's probably looked just as bad to adults as what these kids wear. I bet Patrick was rockin a mullet back then. haha (Business in the front... and PARTY IN THE BACK!) I confess to my mullet wearing days, though they are far behind me now, thank god.

But, it would be nice to have a new cement skae park WITH VIDEO CAMERAS... because many of those same kids who were at city hall are into much worse things than skateboarding on the sidewalks.

Hate is such a harsh word to use, it might lead one into thinking that a personal may loom deep down inside of one like prejudice, racism, or just discontent for mankind. In my learning throughout history we have associated the most Hannis criminals with the word hate or hatred of. The words dislike, don't agree with, not understanding of, or don't like creates a more understandable and agreeable atmosphere around all subjects and people's. I'm not saying it should not be used but it can drive peoples attitude the wrong way and cause a lot of hostility when bought up time and time again !

Nah... I still like Hate!

And the word is Heinous.

Pronunciation:: \h-ns\ (It rhymes with anus)
Function:: adjective
Etymology:: Middle English, from Anglo-French hainus, heinous, from haine hate, from hair to hate, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German haz hate more at hate
Date:: 14th century

: hatefully or shockingly evil : abominable

hei·nous·ly adverb

hei·nous·ness noun

AKansasan · Member

Why doesn't the city just widen the existing sidewalks and make a bike/skateboarding lane?
With two lanes you can have foot traffic in one and bikes/boards in the other.

The benifit to this plan is the city can force the homeonwers to pay for the building and upkeep of the new two lane sidewalk, and if a kid gets hurt there is no liabilty for the city. Hey, the city doesn't own it...

Patrick · Senior Member

AKansasan wrote:

Why doesn't the city just widen the existing sidewalks and make a bike/skateboarding lane?
With two lanes you can have foot traffic in one and bikes/boards in the other.

The benifit to this plan is the city can force the homeonwers to pay for the building and upkeep of the new two lane sidewalk, and if a kid gets hurt there is no liabilty for the city. Hey, the city doesn't own it...

If the sidewalks are the issue, the people could request that the city allow skateboarding and bicycling on the sidewalks.

I have noticed many times driving home in the evenings that people walk in the street (to the center of the street of the parked cars) instead of on the sidewalk. This is often a shock especially when they are wearing dark clothes and I can't see them until I get very close. Why is it that they don't walk on the sidewalk? Is that another part of this same problem or something completely different?

Just some more thoughts on the matter.

Patrick McDonald

dddfan · Veteran Member

Probably full of skateboarders.

motherof2 · Senior Member

I took my young son to the city skate park one summer afternoon. His first attempt at using a ramp, he fell and severly burned his hand on the hot metal. We were there about 2-3 minutes total. Now, I was not going to complain about the condition of the park as it was probably put together with what resources were available at the time. I think that it was an effort in the right direction. However, my son realized that it was not a place for "first timers" and I noticed that it could be dangerous and felt like a loser mom for letting him try. Ha-ha! Now, as for the possibly unattended youths at the city commission meeting... these are probably the ones who need a skate park more than anyone. Some unfortunate children are in situations which leaves them unattended and roaming the streets. If they want a positive place to "hang out" in full public view were they are not going to be experimenting with "bad habits" (if you know what I mean), I say the city should give them all the credit they deserve. Perhaps the commission could recommend a "fund raiser" and promise them a match for every dollar they earn! For those youngins who are caught disobeying the law (and I mean more than just skating on the sidewalks), community service is an excellent resource. They can help keep the park clean or aid in the construction ( I would recommend t-shirts with the words "community service" on them).

dddfan · Veteran Member

Motherof2
While I tend to agree with you, however, I do take issue with, "(and I mean more than just skating on the sidewalks)".
Boarding on the sidwalks and streets is dangerous to everyone on the walk, and steet, boarders included.
I am from another generation, but I do have children and grandchildren, and they were raised to respect the law, and their elders. I have seen too many times the disrespect these young people display for some of our older citizens who do use the downtown area and choose to walk on the sidewalks, and on a couple of diffrent occassions near "Sally"s", these young people had comments to adults who had the ordacitity to make comment on the skateboarding on the sidewalk. You can bet if I heard my children, or grandchildren spoke to an adult in that manner and with that language, there would be some red rear ends at my house.
These young people WANT, WANT, WANT, but don't want to do anything to get.
It is the reason for the blog to begin with. Community service is a grand idea, and would rather see more of it because money has no meaning to some of these youngsters who violate the city ordinance against skateboarding on sidewalks.

motherof2 · Senior Member

dddfan, I agree with you about the fines. They are not the ones paying them and they could care less. I believe this holds true with many troublemakers in this town, even the adult versions. They are bailed out by their families.

Elee · Veteran Member

Community service is a good idea for all non violent adult offenders (bad check writers ect).. Instead of crime,bail, court, jail sentence/probation.....the thing to do would be offer non violent offenders the choice in court of community service of so many hundred hours....if they don't complete the task then serve out their sentence in jail. There are many busnnesses/clubs that would take assistance if it were offered to them painting houses for elderly,mowing the grass, triming hedges loading junk ect... The business or organization would have to just supply someone trustworthy to watch them to make sure the hours are served. A lot could be done with a crew of community service workers. I would have to say that the business or club would have to be certified by the courts to get such benifits...to keep someones brother in law from getting them off scott free....
For juvenile offenders the same thing could be done. And I love the idea of the tee shirts.....make it known who they are and what they did...I would make them buy the tee shirt too....That way if they are repeat offenders they can just store it in their underwear drawer to use the next time the mess up.......gotta love it..

Backintown · Member

Skateboarding is the number one sport in America. I'm proud of those kids for taking their voice all the way to City Hall. The lack of parents says a lot about how much help they need. I'm interested to see who in town will get off the blog and help. The first thing those kids should do is prove they are willing to work for it.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Backintown, you make me laugh. In a good way!!! I was just thinking the other day that we should push our darn key boards back, get out of our chairs and make something happen. I think many of us have opinions, but no idea where to start helping. I am ashamed of myself!!!!! Get 'er done!!

Backintown · Member

I've heard the kids talking. They say they are going to start forming meetings. I think that is a good place to start. Now they/we need to get the community on board

dddfan · Veteran Member

Wait until they have done the leg work, organized meetings, research, people in place to make the proper presentations.
Then get the city and the community involved.
They will learn a lesson that we as adults have learned, and how difficult it is to get projects off the ground. In addition, they will learn that it just not as simple as,"we want it". The questions of where will the money, materials, labor and the upkeep come from.
When these goals are accomplished, they will also be valuable assets in the big picture of how to make Ark City the place we all want it to be.
Good luck to the skateboarders, use your resources wisley.

motherof2 · Senior Member

I just had a crazy brainstorm. What are they going to do with Curry Field? I'm seeing a large well lit area that is gated, has a concession stand and restroom facilities. Any chance the school would donate this to the city for a skate park?

I'm envisioning a gated/manned park which children pay for day passes and spend money in the concession stand. It is in a good location as it is relatively close to the city pool. I could see kids going back and forth (across Paris Park) to each facility. The skate park would have an advantage, as it could operate through colder days and after dark!

Is the pool economically self-sustained? Any chance a skate park could operate this way? Entry charges could help pay for labor, utilities, maintenance and liability insurance. If the kids are willing to pay fines for skate boarding uptown, I'm sure they or their parents would pay for this! I can see a really cool place for kids to hang out, ride bikes or skate.

I heard that people were already bidding on the seating at Curry. If they (or some of them) were left the skaters could have a great spectator area for tournaments or parents to watch.

I'm seeing this as a possible win win for both debates. What do you think? Is it worth researching?

Perhaps the skaters could even have an outdoor concert at Curry to help raise money for the park. Boy, I do get carried away sometimes...

always_sabrina · Member

My only problem with the skate park idea being at Curry field is that there are a few homes that have had to deal with people parking in their driveways with the football games whats not to say that if you move the skate park there that the crime and vandlism doesnt increase there. My mother has lived on that street for 11 years and we've had to deal with a lot from football players as well as the spectators. Yes, the skate park is just a few blocks away as it is but the things I've seen done there makes me question weather its a good idea or not. Maybe you can go around and ask the neighborhood what their thoughts are to this.

My concern is for the property that my mother still owns being vandlized or broken into before we can sell it. During football games lots of people will walk through the back yard or the empty lot next to it and they dont seem to care that it's someone elses property. Also where would the light display for Arkalahlah be held if it becomes a skate park?

Please dont get me wrong I'm not judging that all skateboarders are crimminals because my husband was one of the original kids to push for the skate park back in the late 90's. We know most of the original group that faught hard to get the park. There is one of those that still can be seen there even though he is now a parent. As I recall it the original group took a lot of heat to get the project going. I know that there once was a group of "jocks" that would go to vandlize the park as it was being built. They would push around the skaters and no one would stop them because most people believed that the skaters were trouble makers.

I won't deny that the current skate park is hazardus. Rusting metal, poorly constructed ramps and bars. Lets not mention that the area floods with even small amounts of rain. And that the area that was blacktopped is so bumpy that kids cant even skate on it about the only thing it was good for was the burn out contest for Car Show.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Sabrina, would you rather have an industrial park?

Bruce · Member

Put a park in the bond issue. Then we will only pay half of it. (Let's see the other half is coming from where, oh yes from our other taxes paid to the Feds.) Gish how stupid are we to think it only costs us half as much.

always_sabrina · Member

Isn't there already an industrial park? What would you call the area for creekstone and skyline? And isnt Strother Field an industrial park?

Say you put in another industrial park what kind of workers would it bring? Isnt there already a huge debate over illegal immagration? I guess the saying "if you build it they will come" would become Ark City's moto.

There are so many things that Ark City does need that I wouldn't ever be able to list them all. For years I've thought of so many diffrent things that could of made a diffrence but no one was willing to listen to little ol' my ideas. I tried to make two very diffrent businesses work there and got nothing to show for it!

Here are a few of the ideas that I've had over the years.
1) Turning the old walmart building into an indoor play ground for small children (kinda like Chuck E Cheese). Putting in a tutoring facility there as well. It could be a place for parents can take their kids for parties as well as a place for parents to meet other parents.
2) More kid friendly places to eat and shop.
3) Bring in businesses that most people go to Ponca or Wichita for.......Payless Shoe Store, Dollar Tree, Olive Garden, AppleBees, or other franchised companies. (like I said build it and they will come)

I know that these are ideas that everyone has had and that the city has turned down because these companies see Ark City as a black hole. The city needs to use the draw of the casinos to the south to make Ark City grow again. When people drive through Ark City they see Summit St. What they see is a few blocks that have been given a facelift but what about the buildings themselves? The Union State Bank building's paint is peeling and then you've got other businesses that are in great disrepair. If the city would give businesses tax breaks and incentives they just might be able to make the reapairs needed.

When my husband and I were trying to get our businesses off the ground we were told to go to Cowley and get intouch with someone that could help us. We did and met with a woman that claimed she'd help but in the end she never returned calls or emails. That sure gave us a boost of confindence! We couldnt find help any where! We ended up going at it alone and lost our shirts. Yeah the Chamber of Commerce is there IF you pay membership. But what do you really get when you pay that fee? A little sticker that says you are a member.......

If the city can pass laws like the animals on chains and not parking on your lawn why cant they pass laws for tougher punishments for drugs, immigration,and domestic violance among some that need attention? What ever happend to "tough love"? Kids and parents need to be held accountable for their actions. I dont care if you are the queen of Egypt you did the crime you do the time! Even if you are a commissioners kid or a dentist/Doctor or a drunk judge you should be held accountable!

Another thing Ark City needs to more places like planned parenthood......maybe it would cut down on all the teen pregnancies!

motherof2 · Senior Member

The industrial park is not my idea, but it is an option some are considering. I just wanted to see your reaction. Would you prefer the industrial park over something else? I think locals need to start thinking about this and voicing their opinion now before decisions are made!

Industry is very important and much needed in this community, but I agree with Sabrina. We already have an industrial park. Oh wait, that's where we want to put Lowe's and Applebee's. Even though we have a large retail building sitting empty on that end of town (already in city limits and annexed).

I, myself, am looking for some sort of business. If the city was to put in a skate park, I would consider renting out one of their buildings and opening an arcade and skate board shop. I think these kids need some place to hang out. It needs to be a place where they will actually want to be (not on the streets), one with supervision and a place which will not cost the city much to operate. Perhaps my business would somewhat resemble the "Chuck E Cheese" you mentioned. Just an idea I am kicking around. The city officials and residents would have to want it, though.

Backintown · Member

I like the Curry Field idea. It would be a great location. I don't think that the property owners in the area would have near the amount of traffic. Moving the park across the street shouldn't add to any vandalism. If the park was in Curry Field it could be fully staffed by safety trained adults. It would do a lot for the skaters to have a couch, type person. I think that was a lot of the problem during the Prep/Skater War of the past. There was no one to lead. It might also help with some of the drug addiction and teen pregnancy the youth of ArkCity deal with every day. These Skaters and the rest of the youth need to know the community cares about them. These are the kids that don't always hear it at home. It's time for people like your husband (always_sabrina) that were part of the original crew to step up and help