Now that I'm worked up about the north end....I have a question...how often does the street sweeper travel your streets? We pay an extra tax on our water bills for storm water that was explained as a requirement to clean the gutters with the street sweeper at least twice per year as supposedly imposed of by a federal mandate. We keep paying our bill but all I ever see out of the street sweeper is when it makes it's alleged fall leaf clean-up sometime in between the months of march and may! Patrick we need clarification!
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"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
I'd be happy to clarify. I have this come up several times per week.
A plan for use of the street sweepers is in development. Sometime in the next 2 years our equipment and manpower must clean the streets and gutters, as well as storm drains to prevent materials from flowing through the storm drains. This is a federal mandate. There are a lot of improvements being made to curb and gutters and storm drains at the same time. The $2 per month each address pays "storm water" goes to paying for the street sweeper, curb and gutter, storm drains, manpower and a few other things to meet the federal mandate.
This year we will see people hired for this department, where in the past this department has had to rely on people from other departments. We still lack experience in this field so I imagine it will take at least another year to get the bugs out. You should still see a significant change during the year.
Another advantage of this is that the people borrowed from usually the streets or parks department will now have more time in their own departments, so we should see some improvements there as well.
I believe we are in the 3rd (or the start of the 4th) year of a 5 year program and at the point where things are starting to come together.
I hope this answers your question. I apologize if its a bit broken up, I get interupted many times in the course of one writing. If you have any further questions you can ask me here, or write to my email address pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net
Seems to me that my street gets swept at least twice a year. I'm sure it helps that during the daytime there are rarely cars parked along the curbs so that when the sweeper comes around it can really do a good job. I am a satisfied customer!!
Seems to me that my street gets swept at least twice a year. I'm sure it helps that during the daytime there are rarely cars parked along the curbs so that when the sweeper comes around it can really do a good job. I am a satisfied customer!!
I'm happy that they get into your area twice per year, I'm certain there are lot's of excellant excuses why this isn't happening across town.
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"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
For those that are genuinely concerned you might notice that there is an ad running in the newspaper for a storm water foreman. When hired, this will be the first person dedicated to that department.
Up until now people have been borrowed from the streets and parks department to do this work. It has developed over the last 2 years or so with management and dollars ($2 per month per household) to the point where we can man the machinery and prepare to do the other things the federal government has mandated (cleaning storm drains, curb and guttering, etc...).
After the "foreman" is hired, I believe there will be one other employee hired for this new department. This will free up streets and parks from these responsiblities and give them more time to do their own work. Also, if this new department runs smoothly, they will be able to assist the other departments on occaision.
If you have more specific questions you are welcome to let me know here, or contact me directly at pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net.
I see him all the time where we live. Actually, I've seen more then one working right behind another on a few occasions. But that might be due to winter/sand clean up. Anyways- Maybe once a week? Every 2 weeks..?
I'm happy that others are getting the service they are paying for. I used to clean the gutters on the radius of my property on my own to reduce the amount of grass that would eventually grow into the street! And yes I do have a paved street! If this is how the city wan'ts to operate their manpower, fine, I refuse to mow and clean the gutter now that extra special finance charges cover this as a service fee. Thanks for sending the crew out after this post was started! I wasn't home to watch, but my SO informed me that it took many passes to take care of it.
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"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
I am sorry that abc123 is so unhappy with the progress the city is making. I feel that it is progress because even though the plan is not fully functional it is better than the nothing we had a few years ago. The program is still developing and should make considerable difference to our streets and gutters. It is still developing and will be about another 2 years before it is fully implemented.
It seems that the most important point is that the city is showing progress. Some people feel it is too slow while others feel it is too fast. I'm not sure which way people feel about it, but like other programs, once it is finished I think most people will be happy with it.
In the mean time, please be patient. The city is at the point where we have the equipment and general plan and time to start putting it to action. We should have someone heading up that department in a couple of months and then we should start seeing more significant progress.
I have pointed out in the past that this is a federally mandated (not funded!) program, and we are trying to ease into it as cost effectively as we can. The fact is that one way or another the taxpayers and property owners shoulder the burden. We are doing our best to put this together doing all that the feds require while spending as few of your dollars as possible, yet still trying to make this an effective program.
I am sorry that abc123 is so unhappy with the progress the city is making. I feel that it is progress because even though the plan is not fully functional it is better than the nothing we had a few years ago. The program is still developing and should make considerable difference to our streets and gutters. It is still developing and will be about another 2 years before it is fully implemented.
It seems that the most important point is that the city is showing progress. Some people feel it is too slow while others feel it is too fast. I'm not sure which way people feel about it, but like other programs, once it is finished I think most people will be happy with it.
In the mean time, please be patient. The city is at the point where we have the equipment and general plan and time to start putting it to action. We should have someone heading up that department in a couple of months and then we should start seeing more significant progress.
I have pointed out in the past that this is a federally mandated (not funded!) program, and we are trying to ease into it as cost effectively as we can. The fact is that one way or another the taxpayers and property owners shoulder the burden. We are doing our best to put this together doing all that the feds require while spending as few of your dollars as possible, yet still trying to make this an effective program.
Patrick McDonald
You're making me laugh now!! How long has this special fee been in service? In my opinion I'm reminded of a famous backspin made famous by other un-named politicians..ha.ha. good luck pat, don't set your sights too high!
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"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
Pat I don't see where you can define the "progress" that we are making, in the area of street sweeping. Arkansas City has been her for more than 80 years, (my dad was born here). Why is it that we are just now getting involved in the "new concept" of street sweeping? Why did we have to wait until a federal mandate before we "eased" into it? Did it take the federal government to make the local government realize that we had steets and gutters? Why do you talk to us like we are children, that have no ability to see what is happening? To tell us this is progesss, is a load of bull. This is playing catch up plain and simple, should have been done a long time ago, and the local government waited until someone else told them to get it done or else, so now we are "easing into it". I moved here from a city no larger than Ark City, and they had street sweepers working on a nightly basis, with tow away zones and no parking areas to facilitate the effeciency of the sweepers. I know because I enforced them. I have yet to see a sweeper on my block, and I have lived in my home for better that 2 years now. If I follow your calculations correctly, at $2.00 per month for this service, I have paid approximately $50.00 for street sweeping. Multiply that by the 20 houses on my block, and that get pretty close to a thousend dollars, that we have "donated" to the city for services not received. If you paid me a thousand dollars for services and I took your money, and didn't provide those services, I'm pretty sure you would have me in court, or the very least the local police would be looking into my business practices on your behalf. I don't know how many households there are in Ark City, but you can bet there a lot that have the same questions, and would like some answers other than, we are making progress, in a program that should have been in place decades ago. I think that the "raise" we gave to our city manager would have gone a long way toward hiring an operator for our sweeping machine. I already know the answer to that, but it doesn't make good sense to spend more money for someone just because somewhere else in the state a like person makes more. That is a fact of life, we don't need to keep up with the Jones'. There are a lot of folks out there that do the same job that I do, and they make more money, I don't begrudge them that, but I,like the city manager chose to live here, and in doing so, accept the fact there are people who will make more money that I do.
I appreciate you putting the burden on me of not having a street sweeper for the past several decades. I'm glad to see that now that it is coming it is an issue. Perhaps before we started working on it someone should have raised the question.
As for how long we have been collecting the storm water fees, for the past several years (5 if I remember right) $1 per household was collected. Just last year it was upped to $2 per household so the project could be funded.
I'm sorry that you get a laugh that it is happening now. I'm glad to be a part of providing it for you. And again, I don't mind in the least you blaming me for it not being here sooner, or that the city didn't start collecting fees to fund it sooner. A lot of people expect these things to happen overnight. Then complain when we have to pull funding and people from other areas to accomplish it. Whatever happened in the past, it is trying to come together now, little appreciated though it may be.
Instead of blaming the past, is it possible to see improvement for the future? Just like any job that has to be done, someone is pitching in to do it. Instead of saying "why didn't you", or finding reasons why it wasn't done, could someone say "finally we will have" or imagine how things will be when it is done.
Yes, I'm sure there is plenty to be negative about. But be careful, you might find a positive in it if you look. Things may be getting better... or is that what we as individuals or as a community want?
If I follow your calculations correctly, at $2.00 per month for this service, I have paid approximately $50.00 for street sweeping. Multiply that by the 20 houses on my block, and that get pretty close to a thousend dollars, that we have "donated" to the city for services not received.
We have just saved enough from this to start hiring for this department. The funds you have been paying in have paid for curb and guttering (there is a report on how many linear feet per year but I don't have that handy), storm drains, 2 street sweepers and various other equipment and services.
You may or may not have curb or guttering. You may or may not have had your storm drain cleaned regularly, or the concrete or steel cover replaced. The street sweeper may or may not have been by your house yet. But all of these things will happen. I'm just sorry you don't have the patience to see it. There are over 100 miles of streets in Ark City, we'll get there eventually. Working to make things better doesn't automatically make it happen. you have to wait until the work is through. If that is what you want for our city.
I'd be happy to clarify. I have this come up several times per week.
A plan for use of the street sweepers is in development. Sometime in the next 2 years our equipment and manpower must clean the streets and gutters, as well as storm drains to prevent materials from flowing through the storm drains. This is a federal mandate. There are a lot of improvements being made to curb and gutters and storm drains at the same time. The $2 per month each address pays "storm water" goes to paying for the street sweeper, curb and gutter, storm drains, manpower and a few other things to meet the federal mandate.
This year we will see people hired for this department, where in the past this department has had to rely on people from other departments. We still lack experience in this field so I imagine it will take at least another year to get the bugs out. You should still see a significant change during the year.
Another advantage of this is that the people borrowed from usually the streets or parks department will now have more time in their own departments, so we should see some improvements there as well.
I believe we are in the 3rd (or the start of the 4th) year of a 5 year program and at the point where things are starting to come together.
I hope this answers your question. I apologize if its a bit broken up, I get interupted many times in the course of one writing. If you have any further questions you can ask me here, or write to my email address pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net
Patrick McDonald
First a new sweeper machine, then a new job position or two now ? This has been on the table for at least two years now why so long? This not to be blamed totally on the three new commissioners but a lot lies on those who served before for not watching our back yard problems. And just how close to not completing the requirements of having all the street's swept in a certain period of time as set forth by the government?
I'd be happy to clarify. I have this come up several times per week.
A plan for use of the street sweepers is in development. Sometime in the next 2 years our equipment and manpower must clean the streets and gutters, as well as storm drains to prevent materials from flowing through the storm drains. This is a federal mandate. There are a lot of improvements being made to curb and gutters and storm drains at the same time. The $2 per month each address pays "storm water" goes to paying for the street sweeper, curb and gutter, storm drains, manpower and a few other things to meet the federal mandate.
This year we will see people hired for this department, where in the past this department has had to rely on people from other departments. We still lack experience in this field so I imagine it will take at least another year to get the bugs out. You should still see a significant change during the year.
Another advantage of this is that the people borrowed from usually the streets or parks department will now have more time in their own departments, so we should see some improvements there as well.
I believe we are in the 3rd (or the start of the 4th) year of a 5 year program and at the point where things are starting to come together.
I hope this answers your question. I apologize if its a bit broken up, I get interupted many times in the course of one writing. If you have any further questions you can ask me here, or write to my email address pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net
Patrick McDonald
First a new sweeper machine, then a new job position or two now ? This has been on the table for at least two years now why so long? This not to be blamed totally on the three new commissioners but a lot lies on those who served before for not watching our back yard problems. And just how close to not completing the requirements of having all the street's swept in a certain period of time as set forth by the government?
Instead of bonding it out and paying fees and interest, it was much less expensive to YOU the taxpayer to approach it in stages and paying as we went. By saving as we went and buying as we could afford it was possible to get by at $1 per household per month until last year when Feds added to their mandate. At that time the city upped storm water to $2 per month to meet all of the demands of the mandate in the proper time. Until the city had enough banked, our budget did not support a crew to do the work. Instead we "borrowed" from streets and parks to fill the need. At this point the city has banked enough to hire crew to go along with the equipment.
This process has saved the taxpayers a lot of money in the past few years, and will save a lot more in the next years. Borrowing money is one of the expensive ways of getting anything done. There is no way out of a federal mandate, it has to be done. There is also no income or relief from the feds to accomplish what they demand. In this case the city (and commissioners before me) made what I think was an excellent choice in finding ways of funding that were the least burden to the taxpayers. I don't know who thought of it, but it was a genius of an idea.
As a side note, one of the reasons that the mandate was given a few years to accomplish was so that communities could find a way to pay for it.
I'd be happy to clarify. I have this come up several times per week.
A plan for use of the street sweepers is in development. Sometime in the next 2 years our equipment and manpower must clean the streets and gutters, as well as storm drains to prevent materials from flowing through the storm drains. This is a federal mandate. There are a lot of improvements being made to curb and gutters and storm drains at the same time. The $2 per month each address pays "storm water" goes to paying for the street sweeper, curb and gutter, storm drains, manpower and a few other things to meet the federal mandate.
This year we will see people hired for this department, where in the past this department has had to rely on people from other departments. We still lack experience in this field so I imagine it will take at least another year to get the bugs out. You should still see a significant change during the year.
Another advantage of this is that the people borrowed from usually the streets or parks department will now have more time in their own departments, so we should see some improvements there as well.
I believe we are in the 3rd (or the start of the 4th) year of a 5 year program and at the point where things are starting to come together.
I hope this answers your question. I apologize if its a bit broken up, I get interupted many times in the course of one writing. If you have any further questions you can ask me here, or write to my email address pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net
Patrick McDonald
First a new sweeper machine, then a new job position or two now ? This has been on the table for at least two years now why so long? This not to be blamed totally on the three new commissioners but a lot lies on those who served before for not watching our back yard problems. And just how close to not completing the requirements of having all the street's swept in a certain period of time as set forth by the government?
Instead of bonding it out and paying fees and interest, it was much less expensive to YOU the taxpayer to approach it in stages and paying as we went. By saving as we went and buying as we could afford it was possible to get by at $1 per household per month until last year when Feds added to their mandate. At that time the city upped storm water to $2 per month to meet all of the demands of the mandate in the proper time. Until the city had enough banked, our budget did not support a crew to do the work. Instead we "borrowed" from streets and parks to fill the need. At this point the city has banked enough to hire crew to go along with the equipment.
This process has saved the taxpayers a lot of money in the past few years, and will save a lot more in the next years. Borrowing money is one of the expensive ways of getting anything done. There is no way out of a federal mandate, it has to be done. There is also no income or relief from the feds to accomplish what they demand. In this case the city (and commissioners before me) made what I think was an excellent choice in finding ways of funding that were the least burden to the taxpayers. I don't know who thought of it, but it was a genius of an idea.
As a side note, one of the reasons that the mandate was given a few years to accomplish was so that communities could find a way to pay for it.
Patrick McDonald
Can you explain why to some people who either live on chat rocked roads or even roads that have not had a curb for years they see the street sweeper in their area's so much as rather to other roads which do have curbs being attended to by the street sweeper. They see more dust stirred up than they do a clean street, and also why when the city enforces the tall grass ordinance they always throw grass toward the street creating not only a dirty roads but a problem for the city sewers. You would think that when they do cut tall grassy yard at your high high rate it would look nice and the grass would not be thrown out into the street to create more work for the street sweeper and tie them up in certain areas by a fellow employee
I grew up in the neighborhood that I have bought my house in when I moved back into town. Maybe it was a fond childhood memory but we had that service 40 years ago and somehow due to creative public fiscal responsibility we now pay for service in advance, which we may or may not get. Pat, I have a used car I think you might like, You just don't know that yet. You need to start paying ME in advance for your future purchace. Let me set the financial terms and payments. May you be reminded that your failure to make timely payments will enable me to acquire all of the property you have entitled in YOUR NAME. What a sham! This has the same resemblance of other responsibilities I am currently stuck with.
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"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
Good point Callus, the street sweeper charge goes to every household in our fair town, regardless of the fact it is a paved or gravel street on which they reside!
__________________
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
Good point Callus, the street sweeper charge goes to every household in our fair town, regardless of the fact it is a paved or gravel street on which they reside!
There is no such thing as a "street sweeper charge." It is a stormwater charge that covers curb and guttering, cleaning out ditches, grading gravel roads, cleaning storm drains, and a number of other things. All of these things are required by a federal mandate to control runoff and to prevent waste and debris from being carried back into our waterways. The federal government requires it, or requires it to be in full operation in the next couple of years, and has not given us any money to make it happen. If it doesn't happen the city will be fined. Either way it costs money, all of us. We are the city.
I think the program is moving along very well for the number of various services being created and installed. To start from scratch it has moved very quickly to an almost fully developed stage. Please remember too, once it is fully developed it will have to continue. It is not just a one time service, but a full time ongoing effort.
I'm sorry if you are not comfortable with it. As I said it is a FEDERAL mandate. If you have complaints or suggestions, please feel free to contact your federal representatives. They aren't giving us any choice.
Good point Callus, the street sweeper charge goes to every household in our fair town, regardless of the fact it is a paved or gravel street on which they reside!
There is no such thing as a "street sweeper charge." It is a stormwater charge that covers curb and guttering, cleaning out ditches, grading gravel roads, cleaning storm drains, and a number of other things. All of these things are required by a federal mandate to control runoff and to prevent waste and debris from being carried back into our waterways. The federal government requires it, or requires it to be in full operation in the next couple of years, and has not given us any money to make it happen. If it doesn't happen the city will be fined. Either way it costs money, all of us. We are the city.
I think the program is moving along very well for the number of various services being created and installed. To start from scratch it has moved very quickly to an almost fully developed stage. Please remember too, once it is fully developed it will have to continue. It is not just a one time service, but a full time ongoing effort.
I'm sorry if you are not comfortable with it. As I said it is a FEDERAL mandate. If you have complaints or suggestions, please feel free to contact your federal representatives. They aren't giving us any choice.
Patrick McDonald
There are a lot of improvements being made to curb and gutters and storm drains at the same time. The $2 per month each address pays "storm water" goes to paying for the street sweeper, curb and gutter, storm drains, manpower and a few other things to meet the federal mandate
So still yet as per a eailer blog as it states the increase was for the federal mandate but the actual fact was that it was used for the STREET SWEEPER to gain funds to have possibly two more jobs created, while still charging those who still do not have a curb or gutter. Most of the time if you do not have a curb or gutter the water ends up in yoour yard and still yet the city does not help clean it up. Wait they do to with the broom rake they give you to do it yourself (RIGHT)
Pat, just a thought, but since gravel roads wash away greater amounts of sediment with heavy storm water runoff maybe you can charge those who live on unimproved streets more. The main course in this menu is that the issue was presented in the manner that this was a new service, it's not novel or new, it was something discontinued in the effort to shuffle tax revenue into other venues. You want people to take pride in their property and keep the paint fresh, lawns mown, etc,etc. Rather than the same approach with your resident's that we are so weary of, how about getting on to a proactive approach. Really, I can go back to mowing the gutters and street, it's not like I haven't done it in the past. Do as you think is best with the charges, if there is any change, suprise me. Guttering and paving are improvements to a neighborhood that will increase property values. Are you really going to tell me that the city is going to make improvements to those areas and charge me?
__________________
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
I grew up in the neighborhood that I have bought my house in when I moved back into town. Maybe it was a fond childhood memory but we had that service 40 years ago and somehow due to creative public fiscal responsibility we now pay for service in advance, which we may or may not get. Pat, I have a used car I think you might like, You just don't know that yet. You need to start paying ME in advance for your future purchace. Let me set the financial terms and payments. May you be reminded that your failure to make timely payments will enable me to acquire all of the property you have entitled in YOUR NAME. What a sham! This has the same resemblance of other responsibilities I am currently stuck with.
I understand you pointing the finger at ME, even though I have stated here and elsewhere time and time again it is a FEDERAL mandate. We don't get a choice. If you would like to get some mileage expressing yourself, do it to the people that can make a difference. Your FEDERAL representatives.
You are welcome to vent your frustrations on me, but if you want to see something done you have to go to the people that make the rules.
Pat, just a thought, but since gravel roads wash away greater amounts of sediment with heavy storm water runoff maybe you can charge those who live on unimproved streets more. The main course in this menu is that the issue was presented in the manner that this was a new service, it's not novel or new, it was something discontinued in the effort to shuffle tax revenue into other venues. You want people to take pride in their property and keep the paint fresh, lawns mown, etc,etc. Rather than the same approach with your resident's that we are so weary of, how about getting on to a proactive approach. Really, I can go back to mowing the gutters and street, it's not like I haven't done it in the past. Do as you think is best with the charges, if there is any change, suprise me. Guttering and paving are improvements to a neighborhood that will increase property values. Are you really going to tell me that the city is going to make improvements to those areas and charge me?
Actually the curb and guttering is much more expensive to build and maintain. Does that mean the other people are paying for what you have?
Even though it is true, it is not really the issue. The various things that the city is doing is spelled out in the mandate. Exactly how much of what and where is in the details served to us by the Feds. We are using their timetable to make each of these things happen.
As to the gravel roads, they are the least expensive of all roads to maintain. The ditches alonside are the least expensive to maintain. I would like to see some of the gravel roads paved, but that is up to the homeowners in those areas who would have to foot the bill for the initial construction (the city would be responsible for maintenance from then forward).
The reason it takes a federal mandate to get these thing up and going, is until five years ago or when ever, the trees didn't have leaves, the wind didn't blow, and people didn't blow thier grass clippings into gutters and storm drains that didn't exist until five years ago. Which caused non exisistant flooding because of nonexistant rain and snow. (Sarcasim intended)
That is why there was a federal mandate, because the city government couldn't figure it out on their own.
That being said, apparently Ark City isn't the only city who didn't get it. Hence the federal mandate.
Since we do have the federal mandate, why are waiting until the last minute to get this program going?
We would prefer to build the program as we can afford it rather than bonding it and paying interest. It is a LOT less costly this way. Because each of these programs and steps are new to us, we can also try out each program, learn as we go and correct along the way. This requires a lot less manpower and saves citizens more money.
As for why now and not before, I honestly don't know. I am not an engineer nor an environmentalist, so I won't guess. Regardless of the reason, they require it, we're doing it, and we are trying to do it the most cost effective way that we can.
Pat, instead of charging me for the "maintenance" I rarely see on the improved streets, which by the way is city property, How about free graffitie cleanup? My streets were paved by special improvement taxes! Since I need to pay again for something already paid for, maybe you could get out your little paint brush and charge nothing for something someone paid nothing for!
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"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." == Winston Churchill
Pat, instead of charging me for the "maintenance" I rarely see on the improved streets, which by the way is city property, How about free graffitie cleanup? My streets were paved by special improvement taxes! Since I need to pay again for something already paid for, maybe you could get out your little paint brush and charge nothing for something someone paid nothing for!
You're right and I'm sure I deserve that for trying to supply a general answer. OK, you probably know that street maintenace is done every 5 years or so with major improvements every 15 to 20 years. The minor maintenance runs thousands if not tens of thousands even on neighborhood streets. Your special improvement taxes paid to BUILD the street, what about maintenance? Should you pay a little at a time for maintenance, or can you afford it all at once?
As far as the city paying for painting over graffiti on your home.... Should the city pay if someone throws a rock through your window? Should the city pay if someone breaks into your home? These are illegal acts and the culprits should pay. The police can give you advice to protect yourself and even step up patrol in your neighborhood for a while. But in the long run it cannot be resolved until we each take up our own responsibility. Remove the places they can hide around your home by trimming bushes and installing lighting. Keep fences in good repair. Start a neighborhood watch. Call the police on every incident. Give them as much as you can for them to work with. I know there is a problem. It won't go away unless we all do something about it.
