Post a Comment On: Politics 101

CALLUS · Veteran Member

RE: Big Box Store//Applebees cage

blah · Senior Member

What was the point of making downtown look nice if you're just going to cause a number of businesses to shut down, leaving empty buildings on the side of the streets? Also, wouldn't having an attractive retail area outside of downtown Ark City go against the whole idea of making downtown Ark City more attractive of an area to both businesses and consumers? Seems to me like the two ideas just don't add up.

numbers76 · Member

In case you haven't noticed downtown Ark City hasn't been a vital part of Ark City's retail and business community for a good number of years. The movement is and will be to the North. I still strongly believe that having more retail traffic in the community will be a positive to the few remaining retail stores in downtown Ark City. It's just not 1958 anymore and our community must be progressive or suffer the fate of so many other rural communities. The Big Box development might make Ark City a regional trading center again and this is an opportunity that we can't pass up. Please disregard the misinformation and inaccurate garbage that's been passed around by "CAVE" persons, (Citizens Against Virtually Everything". The same "CAVE" people were also against the levy by-pass project which saved our bacon last summer. "CAVE" people don't like change of any sort and are willing to accept the current status regardless of opportunties that become available. Tell your city commissioners we can't pass by this opportunity to be come a regional trading center and once again grow our community.

numbers76 · Member

I've attended both city commission meetings when the new retail development in Goff Industrial Park has been presented and discussed. There seems to have been a great amount of poor information circulated regarding this project. Yes, there is tax incentives offered to the devlopers, no this is not from dollars currently generated by the City of Arkansas City. This is new tax dollars generated within the benefit district which will eventually add to our city tax revenues. That point aside my real point is that the development of Lowe's, Applebees, and other retail stores could and probably would make Ark City a regional retail trading center such as Salina or Ponca City. A 38 million dollar investment on the development is a "big deal" and probably a once in "blue moon" opportunity for Ark City to revive it's failing retail economy. Wouldn't it be nice if you could buy a decent pair of dress shoes in Ark City, or a suit of clothes from a quality mens or womens store? There is no doubt the development would impact other retailers in downtown Ark City but more retail traffic might actually have a positive impact on these stores. It's not 1958 anymore and some of Ark City retailers need to realize that with or without this development their style of operation won't cut it anymore. People not only travel to other areas to buy their products online, they are doing more and more of it online. Another possible benefit of a Lowe's Store would be a devlopment of contractors and other home service providers such as new plumbers, electricians, etc. Ark City has shortage of these individuals because material providers tend to follow material suppliers. I encourage you to contact our city commissioners and tell them to vote yes for the new development which I believe is actually a vote to bring Ark City into the 21st century with a positive future!

numbers76 · Member

Unfortunately for downtown Ark City it hasn't been a vital part of Ark City's growing business or retail sector for many years. Outside of the banks there are business offices, a few retail locations, and a lot of antique/used clothing or furniture stores. It's just not 1958 anymore and shoppers want more selections, better operating hours (to fit customer's work schedule), easy access to parking, etc. Not only are they shopping out of Ark City and spending millions into someone else's sales tax base they are also buying online. Existing retailers should examine their current operating practices on a regular basis to see why they are doing well or not doing well. In the meantime the retail movement to the Northern portion of Ark City has already happened years ago and blocking another retail development won't change that fact.

Elee · Veteran Member

Numbers76 wrote: Please disregard the misinformation and inaccurate garbage that's been passed around by "CAVE" persons, (Citizens Against Virtually Everything".

Or you can disregard the -WSUP*- people.........(wafting smoke up peoples *****) Sheesh, we got it! It isn't 1958 anymore.

Elee · Veteran Member

This is a comment made by "Charles" on the blog "Politics 101" on the Traveler Online. I believe he made some sense on this subject. Doesn't sound like this guy is a CAVE person. Sounds like he just knows how it works, or doesn't work. Just thought this was interesting.

Post a Comment On: Politics 101

"Enterprise Zone"

1 Comment -Show Original Post

charles said...

What we can do with TIFF and what we should do with TIFF are not interchangeable concepts.

TIFF was initiated with a specific need in mind. How TIFF is used requires a strong discipline with respect to municipal planning.

One may have, for example, a generous savings account. Its purpose might originally be in preparation for retirement or perhpas the vacation of a lifetime.

Lets say, a neat second hand car comes available. You have the savings and can afford to draw out to get a classic or vintage mobil.

The savings was for a specific purpose. Later another "steal" comes along. You pinch off a bit more. Why not? You do, after all have the savings and it is there for what you choose.
Even if you opt to do something different, it's there for you.

Problem is that money, whether personal or for public service, is finite. These programs will only sponsor so much growth. Tax forgiveness in a community must ultimately help in the community and the state or.... someone will have to increase taxes to make the difference.

TIFF and my all time favorite Neighborhood Revitalization are intended to aide municipalities in addressing blighted areas. These incentive programs are intended to stimulate the economy by eliminating (or avoiding) ghetto residential and industrial neighborhoods within a community.

The programs in their more liberal application of modern times promote a phenomenon known as urban flight. When neighborhoods deteriorate, people opt to move to newer nicer areas IF they can afford to do so.

What happens to the neighborhoods and neighbors who cannot afford to? Well, those tend to become higher crime areas. The higher crime areas continue to decline and erode the tax base within the community.

The outcome is high vacancy rate within the declining areas and rapidly decaying zones. TIFF was originally intended promote urban growth. TIFF is now being used to promote the lessor desirable urban sprawl. We are proposing to follow the sprawl approach - to create new enterprise zones and eschewing the challenge of refurbishing the aging market areas.

TIFF used in the expanded definition is being used in many communities to accelerate the abandonment of older, traditional, retail centers including small town downtown retail zones.

Sure folks will enjoy a new retail center. Who, then, will attend the neglected and vacant existing retail centers? If a new home improvement center drives an existing downtown area local home improvement or hardware business out, what will leadership use to address the vacant structures?

They could use TIFF to recruit new retailers but why not do that to preserve and promote growth of those centers now and avoid creating ghetto areas within the community?

November 28, 2007 8:35 PM

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numbers76 · Member

In American business and throughout history of the world the phrase "the strong survive" is a truth. If a business cannot or willnot change to compete with the changing times then they are doomed. We shouldn't regulate against new businesses just to salvage a business that is in the failing mode due to inability to change. Watch and see if Ark City commissioners vote this down how fast Winfield will roll out their red carpet. Then your sales tax dollars will support another community's budget and we'll be left with egg on our face. Guess what, downtown merchants that don't change with the times, they'll still be gone.

motherof2 · Senior Member

I am a big supporter of family owned downtown businesses. However, I will agree with the fact they must accomodate their customers if they want to survive. If you want to compete with the big boys, you will have to find a way to cut costs, lower prices and keep competetive hours. If you do any of the three, work on the hours. I know everyone wants a life and some of you start businesses of your own thinking it will allow you this flexability with your schedule. However, I think that it very far from the truth. If you want to own your own business, you will sacrifice much more than the average Joe punching a time clock. Your job never quits and your family will be probably not see much of you if they are not involved with the "shop". I think that if you are not willing to make this sacrifice, you should probably hang it up. I know it's a shame, but that is what the "big boys" expect of their employees in this day and age. They have taken America to that "live to work" type of mindset and are destroying us who want to "work to live".

mc · Member

I keep reading about other posters using the example of the recent mini malls being empty, stating that we can't fill the buildings we have. Think about it for a minute, most of these are built by developers and are usually built prior to any growth in a community. Why? Property is cheaper, interest rates, and having an available product when growth happens. Don't you wish you would have purchased a liitle ol'e stock called Microsoft prior to it's growth. It's called prospecting and for most developers it is not their first rodeo. They see something in our town that many do not want to see or are scared of the future. Build now at less cost, sell later make money. Our community has an opertunity to grow, and yes create some competition in our own community. It should be a decision for the consumer to decide where they wish to make a purchase. If our commisioneers vote down the development TIFF and TDD, I doubt any other developers will waste there time and money to develop anything in our community.
If it is voted down people will still drive to Derby, Ponca, and Wichita to shop and any future growth will be limited. If we want our youg people to stay and others outside of the community to shop in Ark City we must create opertunities. The Big Box development is a perfect opertunity.

longtimer · Veteran Member

I'm not bothered by the prospect of a Lowe's or any other business that may come to town. Having said that I am bothered by the prospect of government giving one business an unfair advantage over any other business. The city shouldn't be in the business of helping any business put existing business out of business. If Lowe's or any other store want's to come to town & play on a level field that's great.

numbers76 · Member

RE: Big Box Store//Applebees cafe

I love being Right · Veteran Member

RE: Big Box Store//Applebees cage

motherof2 · Senior Member

Why would a business like Lowe's need assistance to bring a store here? If it was not profitable enough to pay for the store to come in, then why would they want to be here? How long would they stay after we assisted them with a profit?

perkemer · Newbie

Ok I've never posted here before but i might as well say something on this subject.

I guess i don't see why people don't want Lowes or any other big name company to come to Arkcity.Why would you not , think about it next time you drive 40 miles to a lowes or 35 miles south to a lowes everyone on this board has at one time or anouther or they will in the future.Even if you have never been in a Lowes you have gone to the hardware store and found that they did not have what you wanted and you thought about going to lowes.
Tax revenue will help the comunitty no matter how you look at it.If some local busnises loose patrons because of Lowes coming to town , face it they were going to loose them anyway when they decide to make the drive.Sure local busnieses is what keeps the comunity going , but when high price and no selection runs the buyer out anyway at least ya still getting the tax revenue.Arkcity need to open its doors to the New World, there has been the same thing in town for to many years there need to be new restraunt's and new stores or at least stores with better choices , all we get now is what ever the store owner thinks will sell.(which sucks)
I say let in the new companys let Arkcity grow the more selection you have the more people will come.The more people we get in town the more they will see how nice it COULD be here.And the better off we all will be.
You have already built a bypass around town.Was that so the future could BYPASS Arkcity?
Arkcity is a budding flower LET IT GROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dddfan · Veteran Member

While I want to see Ark City prosper, we need to look at a few things before we jump off the bridge.
We have two new strip malls, neither of which are filled, which costs us tax revenue.
There is a large property vacated by Wal-mart, which with the adjoining parking would it seems serve a facility such as Lowes quite well.
As far as all the satellite business which may or may not flock to the area, take a look at Ponca City, and Derby, both of those Lowes are setting in the middle of a large tract, ALONE .
I am not aginst Lowes, but I am against taking monies out of the local economy to subsidize (sp) their endeavor.
If it was important for them to be here, they would already be here, If there was all the millions of dollars to be made, don't you think they would be here making it? The monies will go to the developers, thus creating a win/win proposition for them, they have no risk. Even if they do locate here and we jump in, where is our guarante that they will be here in 5-10,or 20 years. These people have no loyalty to us or our families, or our city, if it doesn't make there is nothing to say they won't pull stakes and move, leaving us with another building in our city that is collecting dust.
The TIF poposal will tax us through the next generation of our work force.
The jobs that will come from this are 32 hour per week min wage+ jobs that are not going to entice our youth to stay and work in a dead end job which will not provide finincial stability for their families.
Traditionaly these jobs are structured in such a way that the employee doesn't get the minimum hours per pay period necessary to qualifiy for company medicial benefits.
Just my .02, a little fuel for the fire.

Bill123 · Member

I only have one thing to say about the Big Box Store.

Even though Winfield turned down the box store I really think before
to long Ark City will be a suburb of Winfield. Winfield will expand and
Ark City will stay the same!

Thanks and I am off my soapbox!

Post a Comment On: Politics 101

"Enterprise Zone"

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