I understand the concern on the Beer Garden planned during Arkalalah. There is a misconception that the city commission could approve or disapprove of the sale of beer during that time. The truth is that the state grants the license to make it legal.
The only choice the city commission had was whether or not to allow it on this particular piece of city property.
If the city did not allow it at this location, it would have been held at the Chamber of Commerce or the Burford or some private location where the city would have no input.
By allowing it in this particular location the city is able to require much stricter controls on the event. The city is requiring that the area be closed off, that professional security be present, that the proper authority decides how many people can be in that space at one time, and probably another thing or two that doesn't come to mind just now.
There was also to be a private party for the event people held in that same place on Wednesday but the city denied it. The private party, under the same license, will be held in a private location (maybe the Chamber?) where it can be licensed by the state and the city has no control.
I voted for this because the commission could not stop the event, but by allowing this particular location we could put more serious restrictions on it. It was also set as a one time situation by the commission so if we see something we as a commission could do better or differently next time it could be done more easily.
Another thing to note.... There are people that say that this opens the area up for drinkers. As another commissioner pointed out, the pool hall across the street has been serving beer during Arkalala for decades. There is also a lounge just a couple blocks south that has been open during Arkalalah for quite some time. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but the facts should be out for all to see.
I forgot to mention in the last post that it will still be illegal to drink in public. People will have to drink the beer they purchase at that location. They will not be able to take it outside of that area. The security (that the people hosting the event will hire), will help to make sure alcohol does not leave the area. I wish we could do the same at the pool hall and lounge but that is out of our control.
Let's see: Beer garden downtown. Don't be harsh on selling beer to minors. Don't let a restaurant put out an awning. (Of course the restaurant didn't sell beer when they applied for awning.) What seems to be wrong with the above.
Would you take your children to a pro football game?
Ever been tailgating?
What about a nascar race?
Maybe a baseball game?
All of the above exibit the same parking, crowding, and high tension situations as Arkalalah.
I doubt that a beer garden will have an effect on children. It sounds like a good way for old friends to catch up on old times in a very controlled atmosphere.
I've been to numerous places where there are beer gardens and such and the atomsphere is controlled and I have yet to see someone drunk. I think it is totally awesome that the Chamber of commerce is willing to put this on. I'm actually very excited to see how well it goes over. Will I stop and have a beer, probably not but I'm not against.
I understand the position of t he state and the city, but what I want to know is in this community where each department of the local government has their own agenda, ()what does the ACPD think about this and what will his advice be to his people and all the other law enforcement officers who will be working that weekend be when dealing with people as they leave the BEER GARDEN and get into their cars and drive away or fall to the ground. And is the operater of the event (because this is an event not a business) be held as responsible as a bartender does for serves to much beer to a patron. (huh )
I understand the position of t he state and the city, but what I want to know is in this community where each department of the local government has their own agenda, ()what does the ACPD think about this and what will his advice be to his people and all the other law enforcement officers who will be working that weekend be when dealing with people as they leave the BEER GARDEN and get into their cars and drive away or fall to the ground. And is the operater of the event (because this is an event not a business) be held as responsible as a bartender does for serves to much beer to a patron. (huh )
You bring up some very good points.
The same state and local laws apply to this event as apply to the Pool Hall across the street. The police will handle each situation the same as they handle what comes out of the pool hall or the "lounge" a couple of blocks south. The difference is for this event there will be more restrictions (as required by the city as property owners).
Yes, the sponsors of this event did consult the Police Department and the Arkalalah committee and got approval from each. I'm sure you are welcome to contact each of those groups to verify that if you need. The Traveler stated so in the article that can be found in the archives for September 5th.
Beer Garden what a wonderful way to make Money! But for who the ACPD, County Courts or even the Hosipital? I do'nt think making a Beer Garden just for Arkalalah is a good idea. People from Ark City have homes for friends to catch up on what they've been doing. Having an open Beer Garden during Arkalalah would be stupid. Arklalah is a family event. Lets be responsible and show people from out of town. This is for them and the Children. Like they say if its not broke do,nt fix it. We have done fine and made alot of money, from the events already in place. One Bad Incident from a Beer Garden could cost Ark City alot. I say no Beer Garden at any Family Event would ever bring a positive thing to our town!
"If someone speaks we will listen, but we are not planning to initiate anything," she said. "I hope people will see that they need to be involved in their local government."
-Dotty Smith (in reference to people coming to the Commission meeting to voice their concerns on the Arkalalah beer garden idea. AC Traveler 10/01/07)
Translation: We will listen to you (because we really have no choice), but it won't do a bit of good because we already have our minds made up.
Way to tell it like it is Mayor! If someone speaks, we will listen??? as opposed to what? having them thrown out?? The least she could have said is that they would consider the thoughts of the people next year when the matter is brought up. Jeez.
LETTERS to the EDITOR Church boycotts Arkalalah parade
It is with deep regret that we, the Hillcrest Bible Baptist Church, after over 20 years of participating in the Arkalalah Parade will not be entering a float.
You may ask why? The answer is very simple.
We are as a church protesting the inclusion of the beer garden in the festivities this year.
We hold the Chamber of Commerce responsible for the decision to have a beer garden. Alcohol has no redeeming value and can add nothing positive to what is always a good, clean, family time of fun and festivities.
We would urge other churches to make the same decision and boycott the parade in protest of this decision to include a beer garden in this annual event.
Let's keep this a family event and to even give unruliness, vulgarity and the other characteristics that are so often affiliated with alcohol consumption a chance to "rear its ugly head.
Wayne L. Burke, senior pastor Hillcrest Bible Baptist Church
I wonder how much good a boycott will do??? I mean really, who's going to miss one float??? I could certainly live with fewer floats. I just worry that I'm going to have to learn Spanish to read half of them anyway.
We didn't do our job
I strongly oppose the "public property, fully enclosed beer garden" that has been under much discussion over the last few weeks. I say this, but at the same time I totally understand the City Commission's action, although I do not support the outcome of that action.
If I may, please indulge me as I try to explain the workings of the commission in an area where I am quite familiar, that of a court proceeding. Basically when an ordinance comes before the commission it is somewhat like a trial in a court of law. The commission is like the judge. They have to weigh the pros and cons of the ordinance (the law), just as a judge has to weigh the two sides of a court case.
If the defense stands silent without any evidence or testimony, then the judge can only look at the evidence presented by the prosecution (the one bringing the charges). The defendant is then found guilty. The Judge has to make that finding, even if he personally doesn't want to or disagrees with the decision he has to make. He can only make a decision based on what was presented at the trial. The same applies with the City Commission. If a person or a group of people ask for an ordinance to be passed (such as the "beer garden") ordinance, the Commission looks at legal issues and listens to both sides, if two sides are presented. In the case of this ordinance hearing, there was no one at the meeting to present the two sides of the "beer garden on public property" ordinance, (those who are against the ordinance were absent) so the Commission acted, and acted legally because they could only use the information they received prior to the final passing of the ordinance and so the "beer garden party on public property" was passed. The outcome could have been the same, I don't know, but I do feel they did their job accurately with the information they had.
I did not do my job as a citizen because I didn't show up at the work session or the City Commission meeting. To do the job I want the commissioners to do, I must give them my input. Unfortunately, I was not aware of the ordinance until after it was passed. Before the ordinance was passed, it was placed on the agenda and was published in the newspaper. The City adhered to all of their legal responsibilities. While I wish there was a better way to be abreast of the ordinances before the Commissioners votes, in my opinion, the Commissioners did not fault. These are the legal ramifications of my laxness.
I am asking for the ordinance in question to be rescinded, not because I think the City Commissioners were wrong in their decision as far as their facts and requests went. At the same time, the law allows me to ask for a law to be changed at any time and I am acting on that right. The Commission may or may not wish to revisit the issue. That is their right and the consequences of my oversight.
I have several issues with the ordinance, but my main issue is this: I strongly believe that as a Christian I need to take a stand to stop the degrading values that are leading to a decaying America. This begins my stand.
America once stood strong on Christian principles. Not so today. People ask why? Why are all of these things happening? I believe in the past we have let small deviations of the Word of God to digress and slowly, but surely, it has come to the point where we live in a watered-down value declining society. However small my action may be deemed on this issue; I truly believe small infractions erode values and desensitize society.
I want this to stop. I want America to base their lives on the principles that made America strong. I apologize to society for not standing up long before now. Yes, I am just one and I will probably not be as strong as I want to be all the time. Perhaps, though, standing side by side in small moral battles (which are based on the Word of God), we could have a part in reviving the sweet fire in America, the land of the Free...the land that allows me freedom to voice my opinion and worship the great King of Kings, Lord of Lords.
Kathy Tisdale Arkansas City
I have to interject here and say that if we followed all the laws set forth in the bible, as Kathy would have us do, we would have to:
A: Stone our children to death if they are rebellious. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) (And I thought my parents were strict!)
B: Stone to death anyone who works on the Sabbath (or even starts a fire in their fireplace). (Exodus 35:2) For the chilling application of this law, see Numbers 15:32-36, where a man who picked up sticks on the sabbath was stoned, "and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
and C: Stone to death any woman who did not show signs of being a virgin on her wedding night. (Deuteronomy 22:13-21) (I wonder if they had bicycles back then?)
MAN, That's an awful lot of stoning people to death. And curiously, the ten commandments do not outlaw sexual offenses such as rape, or incest. The only sexual practice prohibited by the list in Exodus 20 is adultery, which, although a valid marital concern, is a legal act between consenting adults. The violent and degrading crimes of rape and incest surely should have rated a "top ten" list, but they do not appear.
A side note: Adultery in the Old Testament was considered a crime that could only be committed by a wife.
So, let's no be so quick to go back to living under god's laws. Enough innocent people have been killed by them in my opinion. Think of all the "witches" put to death, or the people who died in the crusades. Most of the "Ten Commandments" are basic morals, which don't require a belief in god to do what is right.
Beer garden is too a big deal
It IS a big deal to suggest having a Beer Garden at Arkalalah in Arkansas City, believe me, just as some have expressed in the paper & in talking to others!
It was a flawed & very wrong idea from the very start. I understand the Commission's position, they were more or less forced into it, as I stated before, as they were wanting to have control of it as since it isn't against the law having beer in the City but not in this concept.
It could have been held without controls inside without the approval of the Comm. Arkansas City, always been a caring, honorable City, welcoming newcomers, supporting those that need help, has been shown recently.
New-comers with good ideas. Arkalalah, our biggest event, have many, anymore.
It is our premiere one. We want to be progressive, as was stated, BUT in a positive way...Would showing how nice the space by the Chamber Office in this way,closing it with only beer drinking inside, keeping the people from coming from the parking lot behind it or off of Summit St., be the right way?
Strange!.Important more times than we realize, show we don't condone something, not only to our children but to each other. We do it by speaking up & by our actions.
We have so many things going on at that time we definitely don't need this! Please Chamber,cancel the plans for this, it is becoming a very divisive, negative issue for the people of A.C. Thank you.
Pearl Turner Arkansas City
I agree that blocking access to the parking behind the alley is going to stink for a lot of people. Couldn't they have thought of a better place?
What were they thinking?
What is the City commission thinking, it is against the law to drink on the streets of Ark City. Arkalalah is a family celebration.
It isn't against the law to have an awning but the city made it so. Now they can allow drinking. Won't someone drink that shouldn't?
Smoking isn't allowed in a lot of places, but it isn't near as dangerous as drinking.
Will we have a sting by the city police, as was done while the Last Run had their show? It wasn't the participants of the Show that needed to be watched. How could they do this, the car club will probably choose to have the Last Run in another city, what a loss to Ark City.
Then there is the flower pots on the street, why did they not give the locals a chance to bid on them? They would have taken care of them probably for a little fee, instead we are paying a city employee to water several times a week. The phantom planter had a much prettier pot on the streets, probably it was a local greenhouse that supplied the plants trying to tell the city how to beautify our streets.
Virginia Schimmel Arkansas City
Where did the idea for a beer garden come from anyway? Was it the Chamber of Commerce's idea? Is it a private group just out to make money? a vendor perhaps?
I have to say that I will be keeping my family away from there. Not because there aren't people who are drunk already all over at Arkalalah, but because they usually aren't quite so concentrated to one area. Will the PD have to assign an officer just to watch that area (There's our tax dollars at work), or will they hire their own security? It will be interesting to see how it goes, and if it happens again next year.
When I read the letters to the editor I find that there is so much opposition to the Beer Garden to be held down town during Arkalalah. Where have all these moral people been? Go ahead and boycott the parade. Do you really think anyone will miss a float or two? Teach your children about the evils of liquor and society. This is something that is taught at church and in the home and of course by example. Good for you. What I do seem to see is, most people in our society think the sins that they are not doing are the very worst sins. The ones they are doing,(and all folks sin to one degree or another) are not seen as a BIG sin. So while you all are on your bandwagon to impede the rights of others, think about all the good things you could be doing to help your fellow man besides deciding what he can drink at the local festival. Giving help to those who are homeless, teaching young people about family life and raising children. Giving elder care to those in need and on a fixed income. Doing benifits for the disabled who may not be as well off as you are. There are many constructive things that moral folks can be concerned about other than what their next door neighbor is drinking. I am not sure about your GOD but mine does not want me to pass judgment on my fellow man or woman. And sometimes it seems that some religons find it a favorite past time to pass judgement. Besides, I know a few folks in town that are members of various churchs that can drink most people under the table. Does that make them evil, I say no, it doesn't. What it does make them is not honest about who they are at church, because they might not be accepted if they were totally honest about their lives. They have to hide who they are so no one will pass judgment on them. Love one another, accept others for who they are and love them for the good things and over look what you see as the bad. Who knows, their bad may not be as bad as yours. If we only knew.
It is with deep regret that we, the Hillcrest Bible Baptist Church, after over 20 years of participating in the Arkalalah Parade will not be entering a float.
You may ask why? The answer is very simple.
We are as a church protesting the inclusion of the beer garden in the festivities this year.
We hold the Chamber of Commerce responsible for the decision to have a beer garden. Alcohol has no redeeming value and can add nothing positive to what is always a good, clean, family time of fun and festivities.
We would urge other churches to make the same decision and boycott the parade in protest of this decision to include a beer garden in this annual event.
Let's keep this a family event and to even give unruliness, vulgarity and the other characteristics that are so often affiliated with alcohol consumption a chance to "rear its ugly head.
Wayne L. Burke, senior pastor Hillcrest Bible Baptist Church
We didn't do our job
I strongly oppose the "public property, fully enclosed beer garden" that has been under much discussion over the last few weeks. I say this, but at the same time I totally understand the City Commission's action, although I do not support the outcome of that action.
If I may, please indulge me as I try to explain the workings of the commission in an area where I am quite familiar, that of a court proceeding. Basically when an ordinance comes before the commission it is somewhat like a trial in a court of law. The commission is like the judge. They have to weigh the pros and cons of the ordinance (the law), just as a judge has to weigh the two sides of a court case.
If the defense stands silent without any evidence or testimony, then the judge can only look at the evidence presented by the prosecution (the one bringing the charges). The defendant is then found guilty. The Judge has to make that finding, even if he personally doesn't want to or disagrees with the decision he has to make. He can only make a decision based on what was presented at the trial. The same applies with the City Commission. If a person or a group of people ask for an ordinance to be passed (such as the "beer garden") ordinance, the Commission looks at legal issues and listens to both sides, if two sides are presented. In the case of this ordinance hearing, there was no one at the meeting to present the two sides of the "beer garden on public property" ordinance, (those who are against the ordinance were absent) so the Commission acted, and acted legally because they could only use the information they received prior to the final passing of the ordinance and so the "beer garden party on public property" was passed. The outcome could have been the same, I don't know, but I do feel they did their job accurately with the information they had.
I did not do my job as a citizen because I didn't show up at the work session or the City Commission meeting. To do the job I want the commissioners to do, I must give them my input. Unfortunately, I was not aware of the ordinance until after it was passed. Before the ordinance was passed, it was placed on the agenda and was published in the newspaper. The City adhered to all of their legal responsibilities. While I wish there was a better way to be abreast of the ordinances before the Commissioners votes, in my opinion, the Commissioners did not fault. These are the legal ramifications of my laxness.
I am asking for the ordinance in question to be rescinded, not because I think the City Commissioners were wrong in their decision as far as their facts and requests went. At the same time, the law allows me to ask for a law to be changed at any time and I am acting on that right. The Commission may or may not wish to revisit the issue. That is their right and the consequences of my oversight.
I have several issues with the ordinance, but my main issue is this: I strongly believe that as a Christian I need to take a stand to stop the degrading values that are leading to a decaying America. This begins my stand.
America once stood strong on Christian principles. Not so today. People ask why? Why are all of these things happening? I believe in the past we have let small deviations of the Word of God to digress and slowly, but surely, it has come to the point where we live in a watered-down value declining society. However small my action may be deemed on this issue; I truly believe small infractions erode values and desensitize society.
I want this to stop. I want America to base their lives on the principles that made America strong. I apologize to society for not standing up long before now. Yes, I am just one and I will probably not be as strong as I want to be all the time. Perhaps, though, standing side by side in small moral battles (which are based on the Word of God), we could have a part in reviving the sweet fire in America, the land of the Free...the land that allows me freedom to voice my opinion and worship the great King of Kings, Lord of Lords.
Kathy Tisdale Arkansas City
Beer garden is too a big deal
It IS a big deal to suggest having a Beer Garden at Arkalalah in Arkansas City, believe me, just as some have expressed in the paper & in talking to others!
It was a flawed & very wrong idea from the very start. I understand the Commission's position, they were more or less forced into it, as I stated before, as they were wanting to have control of it as since it isn't against the law having beer in the City but not in this concept.
It could have been held without controls inside without the approval of the Comm. Arkansas City, always been a caring, honorable City, welcoming newcomers, supporting those that need help, has been shown recently.
New-comers with good ideas. Arkalalah, our biggest event, have many, anymore.
It is our premiere one. We want to be progressive, as was stated, BUT in a positive way...Would showing how nice the space by the Chamber Office in this way,closing it with only beer drinking inside, keeping the people from coming from the parking lot behind it or off of Summit St., be the right way?
Strange!.Important more times than we realize, show we don't condone something, not only to our children but to each other. We do it by speaking up & by our actions.
We have so many things going on at that time we definitely don't need this! Please Chamber,cancel the plans for this, it is becoming a very divisive, negative issue for the people of A.C. Thank you.
Pearl Turner Arkansas City
What were they thinking?
What is the City commission thinking, it is against the law to drink on the streets of Ark City. Arkalalah is a family celebration.
It isn't against the law to have an awning but the city made it so. Now they can allow drinking. Won't someone drink that shouldn't?
Smoking isn't allowed in a lot of places, but it isn't near as dangerous as drinking.
Will we have a sting by the city police, as was done while the Last Run had their show? It wasn't the participants of the Show that needed to be watched. How could they do this, the car club will probably choose to have the Last Run in another city, what a loss to Ark City.
Then there is the flower pots on the street, why did they not give the locals a chance to bid on them? They would have taken care of them probably for a little fee, instead we are paying a city employee to water several times a week. The phantom planter had a much prettier pot on the streets, probably it was a local greenhouse that supplied the plants trying to tell the city how to beautify our streets.
It really doesn`t matter to me. As long as it`s controlled somewhat, there won`t be too much trouble. Most people have good common sense, punish the ones who choose not to exercise it. I`ll miss Arkalalah this year.. I`ll be in Arkansas shooting at Confederate soldiers, doing my part to preserve this great union of ours.
I personally, don't care for the tase of beer. But because of all the controversy I'll be having at least one. I think the "Refreshment Garden" is a good idea. Let the kids see that adults can drink responsably. See you in the Garden. Sunnyflower
I am a native of Arkansas City. With all this hoopla (mostly negative; I agree 100% with Kevin Bennet`s letter to the Traveler), I`m kind of glad I`ll be missing Arkalalah this year. I`m going to Arkansas, to 1862, to help put down a rebellion. I`ve seen beer gardens in San Antonio, D.C., Columbus and a few other places and people actually BEHAVED themselves...imagine such a thing happening with the evil alcohol present. Oh, darn, I`ll miss my annual one beer at Arkalalah.... or maybe I`ll just go to the pool hall Wednesday night before I leave to have my ONE annual beer. Lighten up, naysayers... it`s not a big deal. Go, A.C.!
I was alarmed to see that City Commission gave the seal of approval to a beer garden downtown during Arkalalah. Operating hours as listed in the paper are noon to eight on Friday (Kiddie Parade day) and noon to five on Saturday. The question that is raised in my mind is, are people with open beers going to be allowed to roam downtown at will? The area the "garden" is supposed to be held is not that big and probably will not be able to contain numbers of people. Secondly, I really don't want my kids seeing people drinking during this family event. If I wanted them to see people drinking I would take them to the bar where alcohol belongs. Arkalalah, I thought, was supposed to be a family oriented celebration. You add more alcohol to the mix and you are asking for trouble. Tensions are high anyway with parking problems, large numbers of people trying to share the same space, bumping into each other and jockeying for position to see the events. Will alcohol heighten some of those tensions causing disturbances, probably so. Traffic is always a concern with conjestion and parking. Will there be more impaired drivers trying to park and navigate their way through downtown, probably so. Will that result in hit and run accidents or even worse, car vs. pedestrian accidents, probably so. I am not sure what the logic was behind saying that we want to be a progressive city and that this will open doors to opportunities. I want to be able to enjoy Arkalalah without having to worry about people under the influence who may or may not be intoxicated. I do think the Chamber slogan, "Only in Ark City" does apply here.
Sheesh, will you guys ( The Traveler & Pearl) give it a rest? I think that Arkalalah has been over for a week and we had no naked drunks running the streets, robbing the citizens, vandalizing, running down pedestrians ect ect ect.......Time to put this one to bed......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
And you thought it was over
LETTER to the EDITOR Had hoped we had seen the last comment about the Refreshment (beer) Garden, but with the article about it in Weds. paper I had to respond.
We, who were against it, were smart enough to know that if they allowed only 2 cans, there hopefully wouldn't be those that were drunk but it would help them on the way to that point when they left to go to their own supply at home or other places & driving to do so. Some can't handle even 2.
What we objected to was that the Chamber, who normally has the City's best interests at heart, would introduce this into an activity such as Arkalalah & appearing to be backed by the City.
I know the ACPD did their job but I wonder if their help might better be used at some other place at that time.
I would like to commend Pastor Burke for his stand on it, its too bad more hadn't had the desire to do so.
If it was right to make that stand this time it would still be right next year.
Ask yourself did it add to the festivities?
We had a beautiful day & a very large crowd & many great things going on but the B. G. wasn't one of them.
I wonder if the monies that were made there was worth the division it created in the City & some of the bad feelings that were felt. Please don't do this again at Arkalalah or any of the other events held here.
)what does the ACPD think about this and what will his advice be to his people and all the other law enforcement officers who will be working that weekend be when dealing with people as they leave the 
)
