Illegal immigrants

Patrick · Senior Member

RE: Illegal immigrants

Patrick · Senior Member

This is a link to a news report in Reno Nevada that was sent to me. I thought you all might be interested:

http://www.krnv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1800823&h1=Mexican%20Flag%20Flown%20Illegally%20Over%20Local%20Business&vt1=v&at1=Video

motherof2 · Senior Member

Patrick, what power does the city have if any over the schools? My story is real and concrete and I would be willing to testify to this! Why does a public school deny anyone from their programs? If it is not considered necessary, then why should we be spending our tax dollars on a program like this?

S23246G · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:

S23246G wrote:

Patrick,

There is a way for Cities to enforce immigration rights through a government program. The city must apply for it though. I do not have the information, but if you are interested, you could contact ICE for the specifics.

Or you could just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. That's worked great up to now.

Thank you for your support. I know it looks like I do nothing, but I try as hard as I can. I work about 60 hours a week for myself. I attend an average of 2 or 3 meetings a week for the city. When given sufficient information I can direct staff to aid in the search for new information.

This is our city. Even though I was elected and get paid the whopping $75 per month (which barely covers gas to meetings and printer ink for all the paperwork) I try to make sure I earn it. I will look into your information, just like the hours I've spent on previous suggestions, but if you could narrow it down or verify the information so I don't spend so much time on wild goose chases we could get something done.

This is OUR city. Each and every one of us is responsible for what happens here. I don't mind what people think of how hard I work, but I measure progress in acomplishment. If you can help with solid information rather than rumor or suggestion it would be immensely helpful.

As for what ICE can provide, as described in the earlier posting and on the linked website, it is all on a state level. There is nothing for local law enforcement. If a problem can be proven to be worth their effort ICE can set up a local program, though that is only in densely populated areas.

I apologize for being direct, but it doesn't seem to get across any other way. I've spent a lot of time looking at the various places people have suggested. The answers keep coming up the same, there are programs for the state, but local law enforcement has no power at all.

If you do find something concrete I would be more than happy to get to work on it.

I don't know how much clearer I can say it... according to CNN, there IS a program through which immigration law can be enforced by local law enforcement, but, as I stated, it requires THE CITY (not Joe Schmoe off the street) to contact ICE and apply to be included in the program. Don't you have a whole bunch of city employees that do what you and the council tell them to do? Why must we look everything up for you? They get paid better than we do to look stuff up. Why don't you ask your Chief of Police next time you meet with him if he knows about the program, or better yet, have him contact ICE and see what the requirements are, and whether we meet them or not. He may, in fact, be told that the program is only for denser populations, or that we aren't a large enough city, but you never know unless you contact them. At least then we would know, and you could say that you did all you could do.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Office of Detention and Removal Operations Offices

Field Office Director, Chicago
10 W. Congress, Suite 4000
Chicago, IL 60605
Phone: 312-347-2400
Area of Responsibility: Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Wisconsin

Please let us know what you find out.

Patrick · Senior Member

motherof2 wrote:

Patrick, what power does the city have if any over the schools? My story is real and concrete and I would be willing to testify to this! Why does a public school deny anyone from their programs? If it is not considered necessary, then why should we be spending our tax dollars on a program like this?

I'm sorry. The city has no say whatever in how the schools operate. The school system also operates off of different taxes from the school. Even though you only pay one property tax bill, it gets doled out to different entities. You pay almost as much to the school district in property taxes as you do to the city. If you have questions for them, it is best to bring it to the Board of Education.

Patrick · Senior Member

I have called the number provided:

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Office of Detention and Removal Operations Offices

Field Office Director, Chicago
10 W. Congress, Suite 4000
Chicago, IL 60605
Phone: 312-347-2400
Area of Responsibility: Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Wisconsin

and have left messages in different departments. This office is for the "Homeland Security: detaining and deporting of illegal aliens." Under each option I left a message they asked for information pertaining to the number of illegals detained, registration numbers for the illegals, and number of illegals being detained to be deported. I identified myself and left as much information as I could. So far they have not returned my calls.

I try to do most of these things myself so I do not take time away from employees who have other jobs to do. Regardless of the way things used to be, the new administration runs on fewer people and more efficiently. I try not to add additional duties unless I can be sure of some results. They are city employees, but they are YOUR tax dollars. I try not to waste them if I can.

I will report here as soon as I hear back from this department. So far I don't see anything new, but we shall see. It is a public number, anyone is welcome to call and try to gather new information.

Patrick McDonald

S23246G · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:

I have called the number provided:
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Office of Detention and Removal Operations Offices

Field Office Director, Chicago
10 W. Congress, Suite 4000
Chicago, IL 60605
Phone: 312-347-2400
Area of Responsibility: Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Wisconsin

and have left messages in different departments. This office is for the "Homeland Security: detaining and deporting of illegal aliens." Under each option I left a message they asked for information pertaining to the number of illegals detained, registration numbers for the illegals, and number of illegals being detained to be deported. I identified myself and left as much information as I could. So far they have not returned my calls.

I try to do most of these things myself so I do not take time away from employees who have other jobs to do. Regardless of the way things used to be, the new administration runs on fewer people and more efficiently. I try not to add additional duties unless I can be sure of some results. They are city employees, but they are YOUR tax dollars. I try not to waste them if I can.

I will report here as soon as I hear back from this department. So far I don't see anything new, but we shall see. It is a public number, anyone is welcome to call and try to gather new information.

Patrick McDonald

THANK YOU for getting involved. I hope they have an answer, although it wouldn't surprise me if they never call you back. Our government has allowed this invasion to happen, and it's only now, that the people of this country stand up and say "ENOUGH", that they start acting like they are trying to do sopmething about it. There has been what, 5 miles of fence built so far, when the law that was passed called for 700 miles by now? I honestly don't think anything will be done about it unless someone who is anti-illegal immigration gets in the white house, and even then, big business ends up pulling the President's strings eventually. Our country is ran by big business and their lobbyists. "We the people" means absolutely nothing anymore. It's big business who pads the pockets of the politicians and gets things done.

But, a sincere "THANK YOU!" to you sir, for taking a step.

Patrick · Senior Member

S23246G wrote:

Patrick wrote:

I have called the number provided:
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Office of Detention and Removal Operations Offices

Field Office Director, Chicago
10 W. Congress, Suite 4000
Chicago, IL 60605
Phone: 312-347-2400
Area of Responsibility: Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Wisconsin

and have left messages in different departments. This office is for the "Homeland Security: detaining and deporting of illegal aliens." Under each option I left a message they asked for information pertaining to the number of illegals detained, registration numbers for the illegals, and number of illegals being detained to be deported. I identified myself and left as much information as I could. So far they have not returned my calls.

I try to do most of these things myself so I do not take time away from employees who have other jobs to do. Regardless of the way things used to be, the new administration runs on fewer people and more efficiently. I try not to add additional duties unless I can be sure of some results. They are city employees, but they are YOUR tax dollars. I try not to waste them if I can.

I will report here as soon as I hear back from this department. So far I don't see anything new, but we shall see. It is a public number, anyone is welcome to call and try to gather new information.

Patrick McDonald
THANK YOU for getting involved. I hope they have an answer, although it wouldn't surprise me if they never call you back. Our government has allowed this invasion to happen, and it's only now, that the people of this country stand up and say "ENOUGH", that they start acting like they are trying to do sopmething about it. There has been what, 5 miles of fence built so far, when the law that was passed called for 700 miles by now? I honestly don't think anything will be done about it unless someone who is anti-illegal immigration gets in the white house, and even then, big business ends up pulling the President's strings eventually. Our country is ran by big business and their lobbyists. "We the people" means absolutely nothing anymore. It's big business who pads the pockets of the politicians and gets things done.

But, a sincere "THANK YOU!" to you sir, for taking a step.

I don't need to be thanked for being sent on wild goose chases. If I did anything for our community at all here, I prevented the waste of time of city employees.

I do believe there is a problem and I do believe we need to find a solution. As a city it is OUR problem. WE ALL need to be working on a solution. I will chase down as much as I can, but there will never be a solution until EVERYONE puts out the effort to find it. Hearing gossip and suggestions and sending me chasing it just prevents me from doing things that can be done.

I would like a solution as much as anyone, if anyone has anything concrete that has proven to work, I can do something to make it happen here. Even old stories need to be checked. The situation in Hazelton is a forward step, but there are 3 lawsuits from national organizations that could break the city. Even if they win the legal fees could bankrupt them. This is not something to be started lightly without at least the resources of a state. If you want to gamble everything you have on it something could be started. I'd prefer to look for or work for a way to resolve the problem without risking what we have and with a greater chance of being effective.

S23246G · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:

S23246G wrote:

Patrick wrote:

I have called the number provided:
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Office of Detention and Removal Operations Offices

Field Office Director, Chicago
10 W. Congress, Suite 4000
Chicago, IL 60605
Phone: 312-347-2400
Area of Responsibility: Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Wisconsin

and have left messages in different departments. This office is for the "Homeland Security: detaining and deporting of illegal aliens." Under each option I left a message they asked for information pertaining to the number of illegals detained, registration numbers for the illegals, and number of illegals being detained to be deported. I identified myself and left as much information as I could. So far they have not returned my calls.

I try to do most of these things myself so I do not take time away from employees who have other jobs to do. Regardless of the way things used to be, the new administration runs on fewer people and more efficiently. I try not to add additional duties unless I can be sure of some results. They are city employees, but they are YOUR tax dollars. I try not to waste them if I can.

I will report here as soon as I hear back from this department. So far I don't see anything new, but we shall see. It is a public number, anyone is welcome to call and try to gather new information.

Patrick McDonald
THANK YOU for getting involved. I hope they have an answer, although it wouldn't surprise me if they never call you back. Our government has allowed this invasion to happen, and it's only now, that the people of this country stand up and say "ENOUGH", that they start acting like they are trying to do sopmething about it. There has been what, 5 miles of fence built so far, when the law that was passed called for 700 miles by now? I honestly don't think anything will be done about it unless someone who is anti-illegal immigration gets in the white house, and even then, big business ends up pulling the President's strings eventually. Our country is ran by big business and their lobbyists. "We the people" means absolutely nothing anymore. It's big business who pads the pockets of the politicians and gets things done.

But, a sincere "THANK YOU!" to you sir, for taking a step.

I don't need to be thanked for being sent on wild goose chases. If I did anything for our community at all here, I prevented the waste of time of city employees.

I do believe there is a problem and I do believe we need to find a solution. As a city it is OUR problem. WE ALL need to be working on a solution. I will chase down as much as I can, but there will never be a solution until EVERYONE puts out the effort to find it. Hearing gossip and suggestions and sending me chasing it just prevents me from doing things that can be done.

I would like a solution as much as anyone, if anyone has anything concrete that has proven to work, I can do something to make it happen here. Even old stories need to be checked. The situation in Hazelton is a forward step, but there are 3 lawsuits from national organizations that could break the city. Even if they win the legal fees could bankrupt them. This is not something to be started lightly without at least the resources of a state. If you want to gamble everything you have on it something could be started. I'd prefer to look for or work for a way to resolve the problem without risking what we have and with a greater chance of being effective.

Wow, what a crappy attitude. And here I was thinking that I was happy that you had made the call, and that we might get some helpful information out of the deal. How can calling ICE be a wild goose chase? Either they give you the information or they don't, but one thing's for sure, it is one step further than you had bothered to go before.

That will be the last time that I try to help you and your p!ss poor attitude. Stick your head back in the sand and let someone else do everything! No wonder nothing positive gets done at city hall if you go in with that kind of attitude!

I wish I could use stronger language, but I'm afraid it wouldn't get posted! So just take this instead: &^%^#@@!@###$@$#*%#&%$@%$#*$(&$*&*&%(^$*(&$#&%@%@!$@#!#(&^%)(*&)&)*(%*&%$#&%@%!$#!@^%#$%)(^_)(%(&#^%#@!$%!$@&^#*&$(*%)*&%

arkiegirl · Member

Mother of two ,I hear ya. I was watching all the kids come out of school other day and it was unbelievable how many were mexican/hispanics. I lost count. My kids tell me if it frustrating to them to hear all the "jibberish" that they cant understand. Spanish language. I have a relative that has a child coming up almost ready for preschool...I will warn her. Sign up WAYY EARLY IF SHE CAN. Its not just schools they flood into anymore. It's the Salvation Army, hospitals,dr offices. I mean what do they do when a illegal pg woman shows up in labor?????? They dont turn her away Im sure...so bingo...we pay for that. and tada...her child is a citizen. WOW!!!!

redd rover · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:I don't need to be thanked for being sent on wild goose chases. If I did anything for our community at all here, I prevented the waste of time of city employees.

Too bad Patrick you saw SG's attempt at finding a way to solve this problem as a "wild goose chase and a waste of tax payers money". I do see that there are some that ride both sides of the fence on this issue, (not necessarily naming you, don't take offense), some in all government agencies from local to national. And we as citizens and governments are content to sit on our bums and wait for someone else to take charge. I have written to my representitives and who ever else I can think to write too to make them KNOW that this is out of hand. But one person can not make a difference. It will take a national movement with municpalities and states to let them know WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS UNJUSTICE! And true, if we all sit on our bums, city, county,states......we will slowly be swollowed up by a culture foreign to us. Learn to speak espaniol Arkcity. You won't be able to find a job unless you are bi lingual....and I don't mean french or german!

Patrick · Senior Member

redd rover wrote:

Patrick wrote:I don't need to be thanked for being sent on wild goose chases. If I did anything for our community at all here, I prevented the waste of time of city employees.

Too bad Patrick you saw SG's attempt at finding a way to solve this problem as a "wild goose chase and a waste of tax payers money". I do see that there are some that ride both sides of the fence on this issue, (not necessarily naming you, don't take offense), some in all government agencies from local to national. And we as citizens and governments are content to sit on our bums and wait for someone else to take charge. I have written to my representitives and who ever else I can think to write too to make them KNOW that this is out of hand. But one person can not make a difference. It will take a national movement with municpalities and states to let them know WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS UNJUSTICE! And true, if we all sit on our bums, city, county,states......we will slowly be swollowed up by a culture foreign to us. Learn to speak espaniol Arkcity. You won't be able to find a job unless you are bi lingual....and I don't mean french or german!

It's too bad that nobody remembers any of the previous posts, or the wasted research I've done on all of the things I was directed to do. I've tracked every source people have given and quoted back from those same sources why local government has no authority. I've tracked the things other local governments have done with them showing virtually no results but being sued by various entities.

You are welcome to keep kicking me, or if you want to accomplish something, start pushing the people who can make a difference. The state and feds. I know it is much easier to blame me because I can't help, than to speak out to the people that can.

If you want a solution, rally together and take it where it can make a difference. You haven't listened before and you are not likely to listen now, but the power is at the State and Fed level. Write them, call them, get other people to do the same. YOU have the power to make this difference.... or you can just keep blaming me. It's up to you.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Hey, guys! Getting upset is not going to solve the problem. This site is a wonderful place for us to voice our concerns. I am grateful that Patrick is giving some response, even if he is not successful in getting it under control. If I am reading this right, he was the one who initiated this post to begin with, so he must care.
Patrick, please do not lose your cool either! This is a very importatnt issue and the city really needs your help! Please make sure that all your colleagues understand how hot this topic is. I dread the day when local citizens give up and take matters into their own hands on the streets. Can you imagine the chaos?

Patrick · Senior Member

motherof2 wrote:

Hey, guys! Getting upset is not going to solve the problem. This site is a wonderful place for us to voice our concerns. I am grateful that Patrick is giving some response, even if he is not successful in getting it under control. If I am reading this right, he was the one who initiated this post to begin with, so he must care.
Patrick, please do not lose your cool either! This is a very importatnt issue and the city really needs your help! Please make sure that all your colleagues understand how hot this topic is. I dread the day when local citizens give up and take matters into their own hands on the streets. Can you imagine the chaos?

I'm sorry if I seem to lose my cool. No matter how hard I try I can't get the point across. "My colleagues and I" realize how important this is, but we are powerless to do anything about it. The few things we have seen done on a local level have been mostly inneffective and have brought on multiple law suits. The people that can help and give locals some authority is the state and federal government. Instead of trying to make me do something that is mostly ineffective, make the state and federal government do something, or at least make them give us some authority to do something.

I'm not sure about the "take matters into their own hands". I believe that any change that is going to be made will be by citizens speaking their minds and writing to the state and federal representatives that can make the change. I'm not upset that citizens bring it to me, I'm upset that I can't do anything that will resolve the problem. I would like to see changes too, but the only way to make that happen is to continually push our state and federal representatives and make them understand what we want and what we need.

If you want it done, start a write in campaign, start an email campaign, start a call in campaign. But have the calls and letters and emails sent to the people who can make a difference.

redd rover · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:

redd rover wrote:

Patrick wrote:I don't need to be thanked for being sent on wild goose chases. If I did anything for our community at all here, I prevented the waste of time of city employees.

Too bad Patrick you saw SG's attempt at finding a way to solve this problem as a "wild goose chase and a waste of tax payers money". I do see that there are some that ride both sides of the fence on this issue, (not necessarily naming you, don't take offense), some in all government agencies from local to national. And we as citizens and governments are content to sit on our bums and wait for someone else to take charge. I have written to my representitives and who ever else I can think to write too to make them KNOW that this is out of hand. But one person can not make a difference. It will take a national movement with municpalities and states to let them know WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS UNJUSTICE! And true, if we all sit on our bums, city, county,states......we will slowly be swollowed up by a culture foreign to us. Learn to speak espaniol Arkcity. You won't be able to find a job unless you are bi lingual....and I don't mean french or german!

It's too bad that nobody remembers any of the previous posts, or the wasted research I've done on all of the things I was directed to do. I've tracked every source people have given and quoted back from those same sources why local government has no authority. I've tracked the things other local governments have done with them showing virtually no results but being sued by various entities.

You are welcome to keep kicking me, or if you want to accomplish something, start pushing the people who can make a difference. The state and feds. I know it is much easier to blame me because I can't help, than to speak out to the people that can.

If you want a solution, rally together and take it where it can make a difference. You haven't listened before and you are not likely to listen now, but the power is at the State and Fed level. Write them, call them, get other people to do the same. YOU have the power to make this difference.... or you can just keep blaming me. It's up to you.

Patrick, no one is blaming you personally. How many commisioners do we have? And who were the commissioners that welcomed the packing plant with open arms? You just happen to be one of the few commissioners that answer these posts. I don't believe I, or anyone else is blaming you personally. So don't be offended. I think it safe to assume all the commissioners read the posts. As I said in my posts, every one is to blame from the citizens to the city,county, states, and the Feds. We are all to blame. If everyone would do a small part to battle this, eventually things would turn around. If our state would enact laws like OKLAHOMA did, it would slow the illegal population down. If our cities would enact ordinances for rental and leasing properties, illegal population would slow down. If citizens would vote out those in government that ignore the issues, and get someone in there that will make healthy decisions for our country and communities, the illegal population would slow down. If our state would demand legal identity for families that come to them for aid, illegal population would slow down. If the government would make in a prosecutable crime to harbor illegals in the work place and in their homes, illegal population would slow down. The fact is, no one wants to make the first move. So we all sit and complain about it. All the while our lives are changing. We all have this problem, we all need to do our part when dealing with it. Not just you, not just me. EVERYONE! The problem is, our leaders are too busy fighting amoungst themselves in Washington to really care. And it is too easy to just blame them for not doing anything, and complain about it. As far as research, I think we all have done alot of reseach. And if we share our findings on this post that is just called working together on a fix. Who knows someone may actually come up with something that could work. But if we stop researching and sharing our information. Nothing will get done and we will be worse off than where we started.

motherof2 · Senior Member

I'm curious to know... Who is suing the city? The illegals?

motherof2 · Senior Member

Also, is it illegal for landlords to demand proof of citizenship before leasing property? Has the city tried to enforce any kind of "citizen card" requirements for tenants?
I manage a rental for my mother who lives out of the state. Do I have a right to demand proper ID or social security card? How would I know a legal from an illegal?

Patrick · Senior Member

motherof2 wrote:

Also, is it illegal for landlords to demand proof of citizenship before leasing property? Has the city tried to enforce any kind of "citizen card" requirements for tenants?
I manage a rental for my mother who lives out of the state. Do I have a right to demand proper ID or social security card? How would I know a legal from an illegal?

That is a very interesting question. It has been brought up before, but as far as I know the few places that tried it are under court order not to use it. Several national organizations jumped in to try to stop it.

Our Mayor, Dotty Smith, is well versed on rental law and might have something we could work with. There also might be a way to combine what the other cities have tried to do to come up with something new. I will bring it up to the Mayor. It would also help if anyone interested would fill out a suggestion card where at the city building inside where you pay your water bill and drop it in the box. She (the Mayor) goes through those personally before sharing them with the commission. Her experience may provide us with a partial answer.

The sad part is that all of the illegals do have ID. I just don't know how any landlord would go about verifying that it is valid.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Ok, guys. We may be on to something here. Let's get off our "bums " and get to the courthouse. Get those suggestions in the box and tell all your friends the same! If the illegals did not have a place to live, they would not be here. What good is a job or a school if you do not have a place to house your family?
I know, they could find shelter in a legal citizens home but this is a start. Most landlords would not allow them to have 2-3 families per home knowingly.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Patrick, just to clarify...
Are the illegals covered under the fair housing act?

Patrick · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:

I have called the number provided:
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Office of Detention and Removal Operations Offices

Field Office Director, Chicago
10 W. Congress, Suite 4000
Chicago, IL 60605
Phone: 312-347-2400
Area of Responsibility: Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Wisconsin

Wow, what a crappy attitude. And here I was thinking that I was happy that you had made the call, and that we might get some helpful information out of the deal. How can calling ICE be a wild goose chase? Either they give you the information or they don't, but one thing's for sure, it is one step further than you had bothered to go before.

That will be the last time that I try to help you and your p!ss poor attitude. Stick your head back in the sand and let someone else do everything! No wonder nothing positive gets done at city hall if you go in with that kind of attitude!

I wish I could use stronger language, but I'm afraid it wouldn't get posted! So just take this instead: &^%^#@@!@###$@$#*%#&%$@%$#*$(&$*&*&%(^$*(&$#&%@%@!$@#!#(&^%)(*&)&)*(%*&%$#&%@%!$#!@^%#$%)(^_)(%(&#^%#@!$%!$@&^#*&$(*%)*&%

It was a public number. Anyone that had a real interest could have called. Whoever found this number in the first place could have called, got the information and relayed it to the rest of us interested in this topic.

Everyone wants to complain on this topic, but other than me, who has made the calls or read the documents. I would not have to copy and paste from the documents you want me to research if whoever found them had read them first. I wouldn't have had to make the call if whoever found it first would have dialed the number just to see exactly what it was.

I am not blaming or accusing anyone, but it appears that of all the people participating in this subject I'm the only one to have taken the time and effort to research the information that was presented and report back to the rest. It's great that people take a minute to google and find related information, it would be even better if they could look through to see what would be valid for our situation. This is not a problem I can resolve. This is not a problem the city commission can resolve. This is a problem that will require every person interested to contact their state and federal representatives and demand that they do something.

redd rover · Senior Member

motherof2 wrote:

Ok, guys. We may be on to something here. Let's get off our "bums " and get to the courthouse. Get those suggestions in the box and tell all your friends the same! If the illegals did not have a place to live, they would not be here. What good is a job or a school if you do not have a place to house your family?
I know, they could find shelter in a legal citizens home but this is a start. Most landlords would not allow them to have 2-3 families per home knowingly.

Below is a letter I composed to the Mayor of Arkcity. Because I am a shift worker I am not available to drop off this in the suggestion box of the mayor. Motherof2, if you would please print this and place this in the box for me I will be one of the first to submit my suggestions to Mayor Smith. Thank you for your enthusiasium to the cause.

Dear Mayor Smith,

It has come to my attention that we have become over run with some illegal citizens in our area that are abusing the local city and state funds. These people are working for companies for lower wages, and the local citizens have to go elsewhere to find employment for a decent wage. There are those such as I that believe it is up to several agencies to make a change, yours is one of those. We need to:

A. Make city ordinances to prohibit the harboring of illegal immigrants in rental properties in our community.

B. We need to make city ordinances to make it reportable to law enforcement when those who come for assistance to a city owned medical hospital for aid, and employees suspect have no legal status in our state. Make it a law that this needs to be reported just as, suspected child abuse, or gunshot wounds, stabbing wounds etc..... they are all criminal.

C. At the county level, we need to make sure that those who are asking for assistance of agencies like the health department for childrens shots and other public assistance, schooling etc, to have proof of residency here in the US, and to train employees on how to identify bogus identifications.

D. At the state level, we need to make sure that those who are working in all the of the areas of employment have proper identification and make stiff penalties for those who choose to look the other way and hire "illegals" to do their work cheaply.

E. At the state level we need to make it a law that those without proof of legal status may be held when involved in accidents without proper insurance and drivers licenses. Most are summoned to appear, and disappear when such happens. End result they are never punished, or deported.

F. At the state level, create a task force requiring a certain amount of state owned employees to police every thing from the farming community to the meat packing institutions on the hiring standards and proper authority to those who are of foreign decent.

G. At the federal level, we need to secure our porous borders, north and south and make it more difficult to invade our country; if illegal Mexicans can do it so can our enemies.

H. At the federal level we need to make it law that our local city, county and state police can determine and detain those who cannot produce the proper paperwork for legal status when any contact is made.

I. At the federal level we need to make becoming a legal citizen of this country a lot more obtainable to those who do request citizenship, and make it less costly for those who are under privileged and are just trying to make a better life for their families.

I realize that I cannot expect you to do all the things on this list but this would be a start. What I will do, is to make a copy of this list and send it to our county, state and federal representatives. Some of these items may be difficult to enforce as we will always have those who will cry foul. I think some of these things may work. But unless we all start to do something, nothing will happen, but things as we know it will slowly downhill.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Patrick, we are looking to you for help as a city leader. I wish that everyone would keep their emotions at bay, but I can somewhat understand how they feel. Having never held public office, I have a tendency to expect you to do these things. Perhaps, if I was in your shoes I would feel differently. I'm sorry we as a community do not give you the financial support you deserve for the work done. I do not believe that is right. However, I do think this is what people expected when they elected you. The fact that you take the time to respond to these posts at all is commendable. Please do not let us down or look down on us as we come to you for help. We need your help!

redd rover · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:I am not blaming or accusing anyone, but it appears that of all the people participating in this subject I'm the only one to have taken the time and effort to research the information that was presented and report back to the rest. It's great that people take a minute to google and find related information, it would be even better if they could look through to see what would be valid for our situation. This is not a problem I can resolve. This is not a problem the city commission can resolve. This is a problem that will require every person interested to contact their state and federal representatives and demand that they do something.

Ummm, let me see if I got this right?, does that say, "I'm not blaming anyone but" how come you guys don't do any of the work? The web sites that I personally have supplied I HAVE studied. As I am sure some of the rest have. We all must have been mistaken when we thought that you were one of the leaders here in our city we elected to represent us, and thought you were the one we could turn too with some of our problems as we see them. NOW, we all get it that we should write to our federal and state representitives. Just as we are writing on the forum to allow our city representitives to know what some of our issues are. How are we to feel if when we write to our Federal and State Rep's if they would say there is nothing we can do, as you tell us. I don't believe there is NOTHING you can do, I do believe there is something each of us can do citizen, city, state, county and Federal. But if we all wait for the other to do it, nothing will get done. I don't suppose you want to hear that. One or two questions now. Do you have any children in the pre-K age that has been turned down for schooling because there was no room? Have you sat in the county health department and watched so many people come in for free inoculations for their children, and other things, and not be able to speak english? Have you given out any tickets for no proof of insurance to someone that doesn't speak english, and when you let them go with a date for an appearance in court ,only to find they are a no show and cannot be found? If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then it could be said that an illegal immigrant may have infringed on your rights as an American citizen. And until ALL polititians admit there is a problem and accept the fact that there IS something they can do, we will sit here in denial and all of us will suffer the consequenses. Now you will fire back at me as I suspect you will, but I am not saying anything that I haven't said on this forum many times and now I believe, that either you aren't listening, or you don't believe there is a problem. If you did you would try to help come up with a possible solution rather than to accuse everyone else of not doing anything.

S23246G · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:

I am not blaming or accusing anyone, but it appears that of all the people participating in this subject I'm the only one to have taken the time and effort to research the information that was presented and report back to the rest. It's great that people take a minute to google and find related information, it would be even better if they could look through to see what would be valid for our situation. This is not a problem I can resolve. This is not a problem the city commission can resolve. This is a problem that will require every person interested to contact their state and federal representatives and demand that they do something.

redd rover wrote:

Ummm, let me see if I got this right?, does that say, "I'm not blaming anyone but" how come you guys don't do any of the work? The web sites that I personally have supplied I HAVE studied. As I am sure some of the rest have. We all must have been mistaken when we thought that you were one of the leaders here in our city we elected to represent us, and thought you were the one we could turn too with some of our problems as we see them. NOW, we all get it that we should write to our federal and state representitives. Just as we are writing on the forum to allow our city representitives to know what some of our issues are. How are we to feel if when we write to our Federal and State Rep's if they would say there is nothing we can do, as you tell us. I don't believe there is NOTHING you can do, I do believe there is something each of us can do citizen, city, state, county and Federal. But if we all wait for the other to do it, nothing will get done. I don't suppose you want to hear that. One or two questions now. Do you have any children in the pre-K age that has been turned down for schooling because there was no room? Have you sat in the county health department and watched so many people come in for free inoculations for their children, and other things, and not be able to speak english? Have you given out any tickets for no proof of insurance to someone that doesn't speak english, and when you let them go with a date for an appearance in court ,only to find they are a no show and cannot be found? If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then it could be said that an illegal immigrant may have infringed on your rights as an American citizen. And until ALL polititians admit there is a problem and accept the fact that there IS something they can do, we will sit here in denial and all of us will suffer the consequenses. Now you will fire back at me as I suspect you will, but I am not saying anything that I haven't said on this forum many times and now I believe, that either you aren't listening, or you don't believe there is a problem. If you did you would try to help come up with a possible solution rather than to accuse everyone else of not doing anything.

Redd Rover,

Continuing to ask Patrick for any help in this matter is like banging our heads against a wall. I commend you for taking it to other local leaders, as well as our State and federal leaders. I have made a few calls myself to State reps and even Federal Reps, but I fear that it all falls on deaf ears. There has been poll after poll nationally that shows that Americans are fed up with illegal immigration, but as long as our politicians are being bought and paid for by big business, they will continue to take over until this country is past the point of no return. I guess it's like Patrick said in an earlier post... their money spends the same as anyone elses. That's the attitude that will have us all speaking spanish in 50 years.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Just contacted the Kansas Hud Agency, and they told me that illegal immigrants are not protected under the Fair Housing Act. Landlords are within their legal rights to refuse tenancy to someone if they know they are not a US citizen and if the immigrant reports the landlord to HUD, said person would be reported to INS and deported.
The landlord has the right to ask for proof of ID (drivers license or social security card for background check) and question their citizenship. However, they must be consistent with all applicants no matter of race or national origin. You may not have certain requirements for example a caucasion vs. hispanic person or you could be in trouble!
Thought this was good information for all to know!
Contact info:

Kansas City Regional Office of FHEO
U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development
Gateway Tower II
400 State Avenue, Room 200
Kansas City, Kansas 66101-2406
(913) 551-6958
1-800-743-5323

redd rover · Senior Member

motherof2 wrote:

Just contacted the Kansas Hud Agency, and they told me that illegal immigrants are not protected under the Fair Housing Act. Landlords are within their legal rights to refuse tenancy to someone if they know they are not a US citizen and if the immigrant reports the landlord to HUD, said person would be reported to INS and deported.
The landlord has the right to ask for proof of ID (drivers license or social security card for background check) and question their citizenship. However, they must be consistent with all applicants no matter of race or national origin. You may not have certain requirements for example a caucasion vs. hispanic person or you could be in trouble!
Thought this was good information for all to know!
Contact info:

Kansas City Regional Office of FHEO
U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development
Gateway Tower II
400 State Avenue, Room 200
Kansas City, Kansas 66101-2406
(913) 551-6958
1-800-743-5323

Motherof2, Thank you for calling and getting this information, I have a rental property and will be glad when it comes up again for rent to use this information. Now I want to find some information of being able to watch for signs of illegal ID, and bogus SS cards. That is the next step. I suppose if the leaders of the area refuse to admit there is a problem or refuse to admit there is anything that they can do, then we will have to take measures of our own. I have grandchildren that will be here for the next 50 years and would like them to know that I did every thing I could to keep our lives from changing to the negative. Luckily mine live on the Oklahoma side where they are taking steps to keep their lives from changing.

Patrick · Senior Member

Redd Rover from another topic:

This was in the Wichita Eagle a year ago. I posted it. Please don't speak for local law enforcement till you know what they have done in the past with illegals. I know what the county level does with them in the past. NOTHING! I can't say what the city does with them but I don't ever remember reading in the police notes anyone ever being arrested for being illegal. Please, Mr McDonald, check into it. Then let us know what you find.

The enforcement of illegal alien laws are all federal laws and local police and Sheriff's deputies have no authority to enforce them. Soif someone is just an illegal immigrant and have not committed any crimes other than traffic or a misdemeanor, the police can only handle the investigation of the crimes they have committed and treat them like any other citizen. If the illegal immigrant has committed a felony, the local police contact ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) and they put a hold on the person so they cannot make bond. If they are convicted, they are flagged a deported felon and deported after serving their prison sentence, or after the disposition of the case. A deported felon can never legally enter the US again.

When dealing with someone who the police or deputy believe is illegal and is lying about their name, the police or deputy run their fingerprints through the FBI Rapid Response Center. About 30 minutes later they either reply with the persons real name or that the person is not in the system which means they have never been fingerprinted. Sometimes they come back wanted on a warrant and the local police take them to jail with a hold for ICE. If they come back with a different name but no ICE hold, the police or deputy charge them with Obstruct Legal Process or Official Duty.

Those are the ways that police indirectly enforce illegal immigrant laws. However, if someone calls in and says there are 20 illegal immigrants working at Creekstone, the police and Sheriff's Dept. have no authority to go out and arrest them as that is under Federal law. Local authorities would then refer the caller to ICE.

So, many people are quite right in that the Police and Sheriff's Depts. have done very little. Unfortunatly there is not much they are allowed to do unless another crime is committed.

It is out of the hands of local government, but if anyone wanted to change this system it would have to be made through our federal representatives and agencies.

Patrick McDonald
Arkansas City Commissioner

motherof2 · Senior Member

Red Rover, you and Patrick both brought up the issue of false id's. I wish someone could find out how to check these. I know that employers like Rubbermaid use a service to check SSN's before they hire. Not sure how or where they get this info. I'll do some checking. However, I would say the system they are using is not fool proof. I'm just a little suspicious of full grown adults who do not speak a lick of English. Sure, they may have work Visa's or come from a city in the US which does not use English. However, there sure are a lot of them and they were obviously not educated in an American school.

Patrick · Senior Member

redd rover wrote:

Patrick wrote:I am not blaming or accusing anyone, but it appears that of all the people participating in this subject I'm the only one to have taken the time and effort to research the information that was presented and report back to the rest. It's great that people take a minute to google and find related information, it would be even better if they could look through to see what would be valid for our situation. This is not a problem I can resolve. This is not a problem the city commission can resolve. This is a problem that will require every person interested to contact their state and federal representatives and demand that they do something.

Ummm, let me see if I got this right?, does that say, "I'm not blaming anyone but" how come you guys don't do any of the work? The web sites that I personally have supplied I HAVE studied. As I am sure some of the rest have. We all must have been mistaken when we thought that you were one of the leaders here in our city we elected to represent us, and thought you were the one we could turn too with some of our problems as we see them. NOW, we all get it that we should write to our federal and state representitives. Just as we are writing on the forum to allow our city representitives to know what some of our issues are. How are we to feel if when we write to our Federal and State Rep's if they would say there is nothing we can do, as you tell us. I don't believe there is NOTHING you can do, I do believe there is something each of us can do citizen, city, state, county and Federal. But if we all wait for the other to do it, nothing will get done. I don't suppose you want to hear that. One or two questions now. Do you have any children in the pre-K age that has been turned down for schooling because there was no room? Have you sat in the county health department and watched so many people come in for free inoculations for their children, and other things, and not be able to speak english? Have you given out any tickets for no proof of insurance to someone that doesn't speak english, and when you let them go with a date for an appearance in court ,only to find they are a no show and cannot be found? If you can answer yes to any of these questions, then it could be said that an illegal immigrant may have infringed on your rights as an American citizen. And until ALL polititians admit there is a problem and accept the fact that there IS something they can do, we will sit here in denial and all of us will suffer the consequenses. Now you will fire back at me as I suspect you will, but I am not saying anything that I haven't said on this forum many times and now I believe, that either you aren't listening, or you don't believe there is a problem. If you did you would try to help come up with a possible solution rather than to accuse everyone else of not doing anything.

I apologize. You are more than welcome to blame me. I looked into each and every telephone number and website listed as I was requested to do. Each was public access and anyone could have looked, and perhaps someone did. From each and every one that was brought up here I reported back from phone calls and cut and pasted from websites the information about the local authorities not being allowed to detain these people. I gave the specific information from each phone number and each website right here in this forum.

You can choose to believe that I am not trying. You can choose to believe that I misrepresented the information from those websites and phone numbers, though you are more than welcome to check. You can choose to believe that a city commissioner is not restricted by state and federal law any more than the local authorities. But I have presented that information to you here from phone numbers and websites that were presented in this forum and in this particular thread.

I would like to see something happen. I have proven that there is no authority here. I have suggested that we direct our efforts where it can make a difference. Together we (you, I and everyone else here) can make a difference by contacting the people in control.

You can continue to blame me if you so choose, that is your right. But if we want to solve the problem we have to get beyond blame and move in a direction we know the power to be in. You have to admit that you know the state and feds have that power. We can petition them to fix things or to grant us local power to fix our own home area. We have to take the initiative to start action to make them recognize us and give us the authority. Otherwise people will continue to blame me and anyone else that happens to be standing in line for being powerless to do anything.

Powerless is a good word here. I imagine you feel the same way as I do because you/we cannot get results. I have explained repeatedly that I have no authority. I have used the information I was pointed at to prove that I am powerless to do anything. But, in that same information, it stated that the state and feds do have that power. As citizens, we can get together and get their attention. You have my attention. I am continually beaten with demands that I do something beyond my authority. Why can't the same attention be put on someone that CAN make a difference? I would be glad to help. Putting city commissioner before my name does not make any difference to them (our representatives). But, directing a lot of emails and letters to them does get their attention. If a large group does not get what they want, the representatives know that that group will not vote for them. We can make a difference. We just need someone with enough time and energy to put it together.

I've done everything I can to not take this personally. I know how it feels to not get the responses we need to push forward. The difference here is that we need to push in the right direction. At the people who literally can make a difference.

If you choose to take this as a personal attack, I'm sorry. That is not the intent. But if you continue to beat a dead horse we will never be able to get anywhere. Let's work together and work in a direction we can get some results from.