Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
The Arkansas City Traveler Online - Arkcity.net -> Traveler Talk -> State - In the News -> Fred Phelps and his Bitter Messages
Post Info TOPIC: Fred Phelps and his Bitter Messages
blah


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 104
Date:
RE: Fred Phelps and his Bitter Messages
Permalink  

1. The first problem with your stance is the whole thought behind it. What you purpose undermines all of the freedoms that soilders have fought for. Removing a person from this country because you do not like their beliefs or the message they support is one of the most unamerican proposals I have ever heard of. The whole point of the United States was to have a place that was free of control and where ideas would not be oppressed.


2. You bring up a point something along the lines of "why doesn't Phelps relocate if he hates America so much?" However, it would be logical for him to stay here and spread his message. If you think about it, how else would he be able to try and change peoples opinions? By locating himself in the place that he dislikes the most, he is guaranteed to get more attention. It gives him a better chance to speard his message to more viewers, even if its in a negative way, and I've heard more than one that any publicity is good publicity.


3. What you see as hate and content, he see's as God's message. Once again, it is a generalization of what is "good" and "bad" based on your own personal viewpoints. Not all people are raised the same, not all people believe the same. It is an objective view held by the person. Just because Phelps' message is out of the norm, it is seen as being negative. If society were to accept what Phelps says, then your views would be hateful. The continuance of generalizing a position based on the objectivness of your position is an inherent flaw within your argument, and really makes most of your points inviald because the other side of the issue is unheard. It may be hard, but at the heart of real discussion and problem resoluton a person needs to be able to set aside personal beliefs and look at everything on face value. 


The real solution to this so called "problem" (if you consider exercising democratic rights that have been fought for a problem) is to ignore it. Don't give media coverage to Phelps and WBO. Don't counter-protest. Just pretend like he does not exist. Sure its going to be hard for the families and people that he protest against, but by reacting you give into him. A reaction is what he wants.


This is not entierly directed at you redd rover, but more at people in general. I apologize if it may seem harsh, but its the way I write. 



__________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
redd rover


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 167
Date:
Permalink  

1. First and foremost, I was beginning to think nobody read these posts....I can appreciate your opinion of my post. However, my family and I are  close to some of the people Phelps is protesting about. That is were my personal, and some would say "biased" opinion comes from. I have my last born child in Iraq serving in the miltary. And I have had several young friends with families that have served there as well. This is just my opinion of the goings on of the Phelps clan, and all of those before me have fought for that right for me as well as Phelps to have an opinion. As for my views being unamerican, so be it, if I have to be that to state my opinion as I see it.


2.Point two of my post,being something along the lines of "Why doesn't Phelps relocate", I have no problem with Phelps having the beliefs he has as long as he doesn't shove them down  our throats. By picketing a young soldiers funeral, I would say he is overstepping a boundry. Picket in town every day of the week if he wants, but, leave the soldiers family to grieve. If daily picketing was the type protests he was doing I would be "ignoring" him. He is entitled to his opinion on any other day of the week. "BUT NOT AT A FUNERAL"! Be it of a soldier or a gay murder victim!!! I didn't mean he needed to leave per say, I meant that if he hated the deterioration of this country that would be an option for him. An option I would love to see if he can't be more selective on when and where he protests.


3. Regarding the hate and discontent, if Phelps ideas and ways were the norm, it would be I that would be looking for another country to live in. I want no part of a country that can not honor those who give their lives for their country. So yes, it is all in the what we consider GOOD or BAD. But that is not how it is here. Phelps behavior is a problem. Not his right to protest. It is the times and the places he choses to protest that is the problem. I believe in his right to protest if that is what he chooses. Just not where he chooses to protest. To bad that I didn't make myself clear in my first post.


I understand that your post was not directly aimed at me Blah, I have no problem with that. As I believe your are entitled to you opinion as well. But as a country, we have ignored so much, and some things have gotten out of hand. Sometimes putting your head in the sand and doing too much ignoring is not healthy. Thank god for forums like this so we can let our opinions known. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.


 



__________________
S23246G


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 309
Date:
Permalink  

I keep waiting for Phelps and his Anti-American hatemongers to be attacked by a group of grieving family members, and here is video of just such an occassion....  Look at em run! 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrFVjg79_iM


Enjoy the video.  I certainly did!



__________________
littlekslady


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 4
Date:
Permalink  

You know I had a nephew that was killed in Iraq Nov. 2005 from Ark City and I am just glad the weather was bad enough that Fred Phelps and his group couldn't get there to do their protest at his funeral. That just makes me sick what they are doing. As a family member that was killed there and served his country it is sad there is people like that out there so full of hate the have no respect at all. I just think if they want to protest the soldiers then maybe they should take them all to Iraq and see just what our guys are doing there and having to deal with there so people would have a better life. Leave them a week there and let them see what it is like. I don't know just had to say my thoughts. Just crazy to me what this world has came to.



__________________

Judy
kisses


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Date:
Permalink  

DITTO! Veteran member - November 20.  I say "blah" to Blah!

PEOPLE have a RIGHT to grieve without some nutcase saying that their loved ones death is a good thing & God is laughing.  That is CRUEL and INHUMANE!  We do have a right to our opinion if it doesn't destroy someone's well being.  He's causing even more grief to these families just trying to make it through their sadness. 

IF THEY HATE AMERICA & AMERICANS --- LEAVE!!!!  We'll pack their bags for them. We have a right to be angry for the horrible added grief he is causing families of the fallen.  We have a RIGHT to be angry for the way he is slandering our loving, precious Lord and to be angry for the people he is dragging to hell with Him.  May God forgive them.

__________________
MB


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Date:
Permalink  

He has major issues- Thats a given! He is radical and out of control. I just don't understand how he can say that he is a christian and judge everyone he looks at- He spreads hate and he will someday be judged by God.

__________________

redd rover


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 167
Date:
Permalink  

It seems in this shakey world we are living in there are always humans that make me ashamed to be of the same species. War, and acts of terror are a terrible thing, and sexual preference of others is none of my business. But to read about Fred Phelps and his band of so called christians in Meade on Sunday was about enough to make me regret I was human. I see pictures of his followers holding signs making horrific statments that are anti american and anti christian. One of the signs states " Thank God for maimed soldiers", and " Soldiers die, God laughs". If those aren't bad enough, "9-11" a gift from God'. Some of them I refuse to even repeat. Where does all his hate and discontent come from? If not for the soldiers that have died now, and in the past, he would not have the freedom to make these horrific statements.


 I did some reading on Phelps recently to try to understand just who he was. He has a faithful following, he is married and has been for a very long time. He has several grown children. Most of them are professionals. Some are members of his following, others had the good sense to find their own way. He and his followers have chosen to teach their children to judge others to his standards.


In my youth  I was taught faithfully by my grandmother and my mother that to judge others is not my responsiblity. That God will judge those who have done wrong when the time comes for them to meet their maker. They did however teach me to lead by example, and try to be the best person I can be. And  I am responsible for who I am, or will be. And, as a mother of a young soldier currently in Iraq, knowing of the struggles and the ghosts they are trying to live with while seeing their fellow soldiers leave and some not come back and not knowing if your own life will be snuffed out at any given time, they are serving their country with honor. Given a choice I am certian most would not choose war.  But freedom has a price.


I am of the opinion, Fred Phelps needs to relocate his family and followers in another country that isn't as evil and deteriorated as our beloved USA. He seems to have all this stong hate and bitterness for this country and it's people, it would behoove him to find a more healthy and wholesome invironment for his clan. Some where like Cuba, or South America? How about Iran or Iraq? If he relocated there, the rainbow flag would be the least of his worries. Staying alive would be on the top of his list. Yes, our society has grown  into one of violence, and with many more problems. I believe that Phelps and his followers are not making a difference by spreading the hate and bitterness they harbor. They are contributing to the problem. I know there has to be others that feel the way I do. God bless the soldiers, God bless the USA.



__________________
uniontrooper


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 17
Date:
Permalink  

A very good friend of mine`s son, 20 years old, was recently killed in Iraq. And, of course, ...I won`t dignify him by saying his name...and his bunch were picketing the poor kid`s funeral. They were run off the property by a bunch of schoolkids!!!
Now... these people even take THEIR children with them when they are protesting funerals.... how are those kids going to turn out?
Well.... when Fred Phelps dies, will anyone care? I won`t.

__________________
Elee


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 64
Date:
Permalink  

Finally someone was able to hit them where it may hurt them. Make them pay!

Jury awards father $11M in funeral case

By ALEX DOMINGUEZ

Associated Press Writer

Westboro Baptist church member Gabriel Phelps-Roper, 10, and his sister Grace Phelps-Roper, 13, both of Topeka, Kan., protest at the funeral of Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder in Westminster, Md. in this March 10, 2006, file photo.
Dylan Slagle
Westboro Baptist church member Gabriel Phelps-Roper, 10, and his sister Grace Phelps-Roper, 13, both of Topeka, Kan., protest at the funeral of Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder in Westminster, Md. in this March 10, 2006, file photo.

BALTIMORE - A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

The federal jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.

Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebil****, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."

The defense said it planned to appeal, and one of the church's leaders, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the members would continue to picket military funerals.

"Absolutely; don't you understand this was an act in futility?" Phelps-Roper said.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.

Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

The church and three of its leaders - Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Phelps-Roper and Rebekah Phelps-Davis, 46 - were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

The group is confident the award will be overturned on appeal, Phelps said

"Oh, it will take about five minutes to get that thing reversed," he said.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.

It was unclear whether the plaintiffs would be able to collect the damages awarded.

Before the jury began deliberating the size of punitive damages, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted that the size of the compensatory award "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court.

Defense lawyer Jonathan Katz said the church has about 75 members and is funded by tithing.

The defense attorney said that the assets of the church and the three defendants are less than a million dollars and that the compensatory award is about three times the defendants' net worth, mainly in homes, cars and retirement accounts.

One of Snyder's attorneys, Sean Summers, said he would tirelessly seek payment of the award.

"We will chase them forever if it takes that long," Summers said.



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
The Arkansas City Traveler Online - Arkcity.net -> Traveler Talk -> State - In the News -> Fred Phelps and his Bitter Messages
Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard