Hello there, I would like to start out by introducing myself. If you don't already know me, I am a born Native of Ark city and a Hospital Corpsman/Dental Technician in the United States Navy.
You ask if we are doing the right thing with the war in Iraq. My response is ask those who have been there. Until you have put yourself in the soldier's shoes, please do not pre-judge. There are alot of couragous, selfless, and honorable loved ones dying for the mission of the United States military and our United Nation. Tell me something, would you die for something you did not believe in? These soldiers had a choice; they knew the operational risk, and yet they still went into the blood spill in hope they accomplished a purpose greater than themselves. If you still feel like we are over there for the wrong reasons, then maybe you need to move to a different country. Our freedom did not come free. There is no price on it and you can not pay someone enough to bring back a loved one. I ask only that you pay gratitude and honor to those soldiers who are over there right now fighting and dying to live up to their motto:
"I am an United States Sailor,
I will support and defend the constitution of the United States of America and
I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.
I represent fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY AROUND THE WORLD.
I PROUDLY SERVE my Navy's Combat Team with HONOR, COURAGE, AND COMMITTMENT.
I am committed to EXCELLENCE and the FAIR TREATMENT OF ALL."
You see, there isn't a person alive who doesn't appreciate what our US armed forces are doing and how they go about their job -- often laying their lives on the line for the rest of us. No one is contesting that. However, what IS being argued is the REASON those soldiers are over there. I am absolutely 110% against the War in Iraq -- I think it is the most rediculous and asinine move our country could have made! None of our alies overseas supported our move, but did we listen? Absolutely not. The UN forbade us from entering Iraq. Did we heed their warning? Hell no! We barged right in without the support of ONE other country! And why? Not because our freedom was at stake -- no no no! Our freedom was NOT in jeopardy in the least! Did you know that the coutnry of North Korea posed (and continues to pose) an exponentially greater threat to United States security than Iraq EVER did? Did you know that? Probably not. There's a reason for that, too. You see, back in the early 90s, there was this thing called the Cold War. Ironically, it involved our current president's daddy -- old pappy Bush himself. And do you recall what happened in that war? In a nutshell, Bush (senior) got beat by Sadaam. Yep! So what is one probable reason we're in Iraq right now? You guessed it -- young Junior here wants to get revenge for ol' dad! He wants to show Sadaam who the United States really is. But have you asked yourself how the rest of the world sees the United States? Have you ever wondered why our country is HATED by so many other peoples of this world? The answer: because we do things like IRAQ! We do things like Vietnam! We do things like the Iran-Contra Affair! We get involved and meddle in the governments of foreign nations that want absolutely NOTHING to do with our "democracy."
The bottom line is that going into Iraq was, is and always WILL be a mitake on so many different levels. You're upset because of all the "innocent" soldiers who've died, and don't get me wrong, I dont much like it either -- but where is your compassion for the innocent Iraqi civilians who have lost their lives because of their ruthless and arrogant dictator? Where is your sympathy for their loss of life? You see, people like you have a one-track mind because of your position. You're in the services, so you think automatically that the US can do no wrong. Unfortunately, that is simply not the case. Once again, nobody here or anywhere is going to not support our troops.. but we dont have to support the idea behind why our troops are dying! Think about it that way. Try looking at it from an unbiased point of view. Try stepping outside your shoes and looking at it from the perspective that maybe, just maybe, there might be a bigger world out there than the United States... that maybe there is a reason why people hate us... maybe there is a reason terrorism exists... maybe there is a reason countries don't welcome people from America. I absolutely DO NOT think those things are the fault of our soldiers, but I DO believe our reputation abroad is what we make of it -- its what our GOVERNMENT makes of it.
I would agree with you if our freedom was at stake. If the time was 1776 and we were fighting the British, I'd be all for it. But this is not like the American Revolution. This is not us fighting for our freedom from a tyrranic oppressor. This is not us trying to protect and defend our country from invaders -- this is our greedy approach to more oil and a personal vendetta our president has with Iraq. Why else aren't we working more dilligently at easing the threat from North Korea? Try thinking about that. If you want to go as far as to check on what I'm telling you, Google is a great place to start.
If you dont like my opinion, thats perfectly acceptable, but don't discount it just because you're in the armed services and you think "any cause" is a "just cause" to go to war. If there WAS good reason to go to war, it'd be different. Nobody is suggesting not to support the troops, but rather, to think poorly of the leadership of this country who continues to put our troops (including yourself) lives at stake every day. Think about that.
I definitely agree! The troops in Iraq are only because junior wants revenge. The current President Bush is nothing but a dictator himself! What I want to know is why he hasn't been impeached by now? The people need to do whatever it takes to have Bush impeached before our country goes any further into the Hell it is starting to descend into.
I agree totally, this war is a waste of lives, resources and time. 6 billion Dollars a month and no progress. Why G.W. is not being impeached is a mystery to me, Clinton cheated on his wife, they impeached him for lying about that. Sending over 2,000 of our soldiers to their death and wounding around 15,000 not to mention civilian casualties in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 should be plenty of reasons to fire this guy. I am the proud Mom of a soldier currently serving in Iraq and not all troops would agree with the original poster's opinion.
I think NO MATTER WHAT WE DO,OR HOW LONG WE ARE OVER THERE....WE WON'T FIX IT!!!Those people will continue the barbaric behavior,women blowing themselves up to kill others,roadside bombs....it is pure EVIL....they hate us..they will keep killing soldiers,innocent Iraqians......NOTHING WE DO will change that.Ever. So we keep sending over our family members....so they can keep killing them . What happened to Osama Bin Laden????? ISNT HE the one who was responsible for Sept 11????? WHERE IS HE???? Where is mention of him in the news???? We went to war and got SADAM......MMMMMM......HHHMMMMMMM
Five years from now Bin Laddin and his remaining top 5 guys will all be behind bars or deceased. Iraq will be a booming country. The world will be a safer place and we will all be discussing sports salaries, unemployment, pollution, food shortages and a increasing decreasing American health.
Yes, Clinton was too busy chasing skirt to protect our country. He was scared to do anything. How many embassies were bombed under Clinton, how about the USS Cole... all he did was shake in his boots. President Bush has the courage to do what he believes is best for this country, unpopular with some liberals or not. President Regan started retailiations for when we were attached, we are a brave strong country and we will all be safer someday for it. And it wasn't the cold war when Bush Sr. attacked Sadam, it was called Desert Storm. The cold war ended with President Regan. And Sadam didn't win. Where did you get that info, CNN?
"I hear people sayin'. We Don't need this war. I say there's some things worth fightin' for. What about our freedom, and this piece of ground? We didn't get to keep 'em by backin' down. They say we don't realize the mess we're gettin' in Before you start preachin' let me ask you this my friend.
Chorus Have you forgotten, how it felt that day? To see your homeland under fire And her people blown away Have you forgotten, when those towers fell We had neighbors still inside goin through a livin hell And you say we shouldn't worry bout Bin Laden Have you forgotten?
You took all the footage off my T.V. Said it's too disturbin for you and me It'll just breed anger is what the experts say If it was up to me I'd show it everyday Some say this country just out lookin' for a fight Well after 9/11 man I'd have to say right.
Chorus Have you forgotten, how it felt that day? To see your homeland under fire And her people blown away Have you forgotten when those towers fell We had neighbors still inside goin' through a livin' hell And we vow to get the ones behind Bin Laden Have you forgotten?
I've been there with the soldiers Who've gone away to war you can bet they remember just what they're fightin' for
Have you forgotten All the people killed Yes some went down like heroes In that Pennsylvania field Have you forgotten About our Pentagon All the loved ones that we lost And those left to carry on Don't you tell me not to worry 'bout Bin Laden
"I hear people sayin'. We Don't need this war. I say there's some things worth fightin' for. What about our freedom, and this piece of ground? We didn't get to keep 'em by backin' down. They say we don't realize the mess we're gettin' in Before you start preachin' let me ask you this my friend.
Chorus Have you forgotten, how it felt that day? To see your homeland under fire And her people blown away Have you forgotten, when those towers fell We had neighbors still inside goin through a livin hell And you say we shouldn't worry bout Bin Laden Have you forgotten?
You took all the footage off my T.V. Said it's too disturbin for you and me It'll just breed anger is what the experts say If it was up to me I'd show it everyday Some say this country just out lookin' for a fight Well after 9/11 man I'd have to say right.
Chorus Have you forgotten, how it felt that day? To see your homeland under fire And her people blown away Have you forgotten when those towers fell We had neighbors still inside goin' through a livin' hell And we vow to get the ones behind Bin Laden Have you forgotten?
I've been there with the soldiers Who've gone away to war you can bet they remember just what they're fightin' for
Have you forgotten All the people killed Yes some went down like heroes In that Pennsylvania field Have you forgotten About our Pentagon All the loved ones that we lost And those left to carry on Don't you tell me not to worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?!"
-The country song on my iPod
So you uh...do realize that the war in Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with the events of 9/11...right?
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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
You're right. The government tricked people like you into connecting 9/11 and Iraq so that we would allow them to go there. Congratulations, you figured it out.
So what were the reasons we went to Iraq as you see them, just wondering...?
McCain won't pull troops out of Iraq...so I'm unsure what you're talking about here...
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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
You're right. The government tricked people like you into connecting 9/11 and Iraq so that we would allow them to go there. Congratulations, you figured it out.
So then what was the government trying to say when they made that connection? Were they meaning to trick us? I have no idea. It could of been a simple intelligence mistake, hindsight is 20/20.
As for the reasons as I see them? I can't answer that question, I'm not Bush. I know the reasons he gave the UN and the American people. I can't say whether those were his true and only intentions.
Those reasons are irrelevant for the moment, we've got the bigger problem of dealing with Iraq.
Personally, I think Al Queda is sitting back laughing at us now. Since 9/11, our economy has been going downhill. Maybe they do not deserve the credit for this, or maybe they do?
I think going to Iraq was a mistake, but I understand why McCain does not want to pull out. I think it would be a shame to leave their country worse off than we found it. However, I think we WILL have to pull out no matter what. We simply can not afford it. They win?
Supra- all I'm trying to get across is that they played on our emotions, specifically our patriotism and sympathy, to get us to go along with their plan with little to no resistance. At the time, anything said against the war was blasphemy and unpatriotic.
I agree that there is nothing we can do now except finish the job.
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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
Supra- all I'm trying to get across is that they played on our emotions, specifically our patriotism and sympathy, to get us to go along with their plan with little to no resistance. At the time, anything said against the war was blasphemy and unpatriotic.
I agree that there is nothing we can do now except finish the job.
Well, I took your comment entirely out of context, my bad. I thought you were being entirely sarcastic.
Yes, I know we went over there for oil, to liberate them, make them "civilized" because our government thinks its our duty to do so.
There are other reasons, definitely, but I don't care. I don't really pay attention. We just need to finish up the political junk, find Bin, and kick some terrorist ass.
1) If yo don't care or pay attention, how can you say what we should do?
2) That political junk...like establishing a stable infrastructure so that they can govern for longer than 2 weeks without it being overthrown...I just think you underplay the importance of all the politiking that has to take place in Iraq and the region for the job to ever be finished.
3) Everyone and thier dog knows that Bin Laden is in Pakistan...so it doesn't matter how long we're in Iraq...not really going to help anything.
4) There weren't really terrorist in Iraq until the U.S. began it's occupation. Sure there were resistance fighters from the Baath party...but seeing as we did attack their country and overthrow their government, I don't think you can call them terrorist.
5) How does 'kicking terrorist ass' solve any problems? Is it not fairly obvious by now that the more terrorism we fight, the more terrorism we foster? I'm not advocating a non-violent approach to solving the problem, but a violent approach to ending terroism will never work.
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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
What you are saying is the lie that the W administration has said to get us to buy into the war in Iraq the first place.
The really ironic and stupid and sort of funny fact about all of this is that many of our main leaders, even after all of this time in a war in the middle east, have nearly no knowledge of how the middle east works or knowledge of the history and politics of Iraq.
Saddam didn't let al queda in because they represented the destruction of his secular government. Did he help them? Ever? No. Not at all. He hated them.
Aihmadinnerjacket (or Khameinei, the guy that is really in charge) in Iran would help us chase al queda to the ends of the earth, hunt them down and kill them, but we are refusing to have diplomatic discussions with them and we are making them an enemy out of political clumsiness. I don't know who is the bigger idiot, Aihmadinnerjacket or George W Bush. And why aren't we talking to Khameinei instead, anyway?
(I do know the answer: Because the W administration wants to pretend that Aihmadinnerjacket is the elected President of the country. The Islamic Republic of Iran. Get it? Run by an unelected Supreme leader, an Ayatollah. The President is a powerless figurehead)
The two strongest military powers in the area (Iran and Iraq) used to keep each other in check by having big nasty wars that would kill hundreds of thousands on both sides. We have created instability in the middle east by eliminating Iraq from the balance and have made it where Iran will be automatically the dominant middle eastern power when we leave. Another stupid move.
Was there al queda in Iraq before us? Are most of the guys shooting at us in Iraq from al queda? Will the government that we put in Iraq last more than 3 weeks after we leave?
Same answer: No.
Why? Do the research. The more you know about the middle east the more you know that they regard it as a western crusade.
It would be the same as if the Muslims invaded Mexico, put in an islamic state, and quelled the violence in Chiapas and TJ. Just as soon as the Mexican Army could re-establish order (pacifying the Mexicans who are shooting Muslims, which might never happen), the Muslims would then leave the region for the Mexicans to carry on with the islamic government. It would last 3 weeks before it returned to the way it was.
We are Christians in an invasion in the middle east and are regarded as such, not only by Iraqis, but by everyone. Anything we do there will be instantly reversed when we leave.
Really important to pay attention to issue number one. You can't understand "anything" if you ignore details. You are young. If you change your ways tomorrow and concentrate on details, you will be smarter and richer when you grow up. No offense intended, but I'm just saying......
It will help you (tremendously) on college papers too.
1) Lagonda has already touched on this, but the reason why the finer details are important is due to the intricacies involved in Middle Eastern culture, intricacies which many foreign policy makers have been ignoring, and hence heightened the tension in international relations with the Middle East.
2) None of our business? So we just destroy their government and all their infrastructure, and then say 'oh it's not our problem' and leave?? You do realize that they had an established and functioning government/infrastructure before we got there...right? Doesn't that kind of fall back to the old principle that mothers teach their kids...leave something better than when you found it? What we would do is create a terrorist haven in Iraq by not rebuilding there infrastructure, there would be no internal control or form of regulation to solve with any of the problems that arise in everyday operation of a country, making it easier for a coup to occur and a terrorist party to take control of the government. Then Iraq is worse off than they were under Saddam.
3) No...as long as the tribal regions of Pakistan and the Pakistani government provide him protection from prosecution then he won't leave Pakistan...look to the fact that he stayed in Afghanistan until those protections broke down. Secondly, does it make any sense whatsoever for him to go to Iraq, a place that is currently under US occupation, a place where borders are being guarded, and a place where a vast majority of citizens would actually like to kill him as well? No, it doesn't.
4) Lagonda covered these as well, but the Baath party and Al-Qaeda were pretty much enemies. No, there was not terrorism in Iraq. Maybe you're confusing with secular violence? What is happening now is that terrorist groups are using Iraq to inspire people to join their ranks and fight against the U.S. and other Western countries. When the U.S. started occupying Iraq, terrorist organizations started to send members in there to fight against them.
5) You missed the fundamental principle that underlies my argument, the fact that fighting terrorism does not solve terrorism. First of all, terrorism is not just a person or thing, a terrorist is anyone who believes in an idea that conflicts with ours to such a point that they rise up and do something about it. The root of terrorism, then, are IDEAS NOT PEOPLE. You can't kill ideas. Secondly, for every terrorist killed, you can guarantee that they sign up 3-4 more. Ever since the U.S. started going after Afghanistan and Iraq, there has been a huge increase in the number of terrorist. Assume you are a teenager in Saudi Arabia whose father/uncle/brother/friend is a freedom fighter resisting the American occupation in Iraq. You get word that they have been killed defending their beliefs with honor, and are greatly saddened and angered by this. Before this event you just thought the US occupation was wrong, but now because of your loss you are moved enough to join with the resistance. This is just an exampled of how violence won't work, it will only inspire more people to fight. It's been proven time and time against that violence is not THE solution to terrorism.
6) Sort of off topic, but...I think a lot of the ignorance, misunderstanding, and lack of knowledge (or willingness to accept knowledge) on these and other foreign policy issues come from the inherent ethnocentric approach that is taken in the education of students and people in the West. Instead of looking at an idea, belief, or situation on face value (as we should) it is looked at comparatively to what we think, believe, or have. Once again, one of the huge problems in U.S. foreign policy in the past couple of years.
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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
