The Arkansas City Police Department is teaming up with community members to fight a common cause: underage drinking. ......(snipper at work)......
"Our youth are our greatest resource in this county," said Cowley County Undersheriff Don Reed. He said he was surprised to find that Cowley County was No. 1 in alcohol arrests out of 10 counties that he compared it to. ........................
"I pride you for putting together this meeting this evening, because we need to talk," said Goodwin. She said that "15.6 percent of 100 children" binge drink every week. ......................
Steve Lungren, an Ark City resident, parent and business owner said he was surprised by the statistics relating to underage drinking.
"Twenty-five percent of the kids have a problem, it's just that simple." Lungren urged parents to take a stronger role. ********************************************************************
OK, so where do I start? This stuff is pretty reactionary and the "facts" are hogwash. He said he was surprised to find that Cowley County was No. 1 in alcohol arrests out of 10 counties that he compared it to. Just which counties did he compare it to? Do these counties represent Kansas in any way or are they selected to make it all seem dramatic?
OK, in Greta's comment, is it 15.6 of 100 children, is it 15.6%, is it 100 children (meaning 16 kids) or what. If you are saying it is 15.6% of the 883 students in the highschool, then that would be 138 students, if you include the middle school at 640 then the total would be 237 students.
If you use Lundgren's numbers of 25% it is 380 students.
Really... 138 high school students that binge drink "every week"?????? I doubt there are that many adults in AC that binge drink every week.
Of course we should be surprised by the "statistics". They are wrong. They're are the product of an overactive imagination and the bogeyman running wild.
Sure, there are kids who drink alcohol. The cops catch them all the time. But the way to control it is not to fabricate numbers to get everyone thinking that there is some big scare about it.
It is completely useless to have an alcohol abstinance club at school. Further useless to replace valuable english and spelling classes with alcohol awareness classes. The kids that drink know they are not supposed to and they don't care. A class or club won't change that.
I'm always amazed how people want to stretch the truth to make something seem bigger than it is. I'm not sure what they get out of it, but if a number of people say it (Reed, Goodwin, Lundgren) then it all sounds like it is "true" and they all band together and defend it, no matter how goofy it is at face value.
It is always directed toward a group who has no defense. Nobody, including myself, will defend underage drinking. But it is directed also toward the kids, who rarely have an advocate and have virtually no voice in the issue, particularly in a school environment.
So let's make up stories and make it the next bogeyman. Won't make it true. Nobody (except me) will ever call them down on the fabrications. Do they get funding for this nonsense? Is that what it is all about?
By the time they're juniors in high school I think they should probably start skipping the lessons on "don't drink alcohol" or change it to "don't drink and drive.
I know a lot of youth in Ark City. I know very few high school kids who binge drink. If you add in the kids from Cowley though, that's a completely different story.
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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" -- Winston Churchill
Lagonda, I have been reading these posts for quite sometime and sometimes I don't always agree with your opinion, I do believe that we share the same opinion on this one. I do believe that sometimes police work envolves a certain amount of politics or smoke blowing. With that comes numbers and percentages.....numbers can be what you want them to be. When writing grants for money, the grant writers can make the situation match the need for money. So yes, I can see that your comaparison with making the public be afraid of the 'next bogey man" rings true.
There was a time when Cowley County was the "hot bed" of activity for meth and drugs, where do you think those numbers came from? There have been grants written to keep the county in extra money for the task force. Could those numbers have come to be in the same way? Then when those who have been on this forum raise that question about it not being safe here, there are always those who want to shoot down those percentages. Saying that those numbers are not true. Which in all acutuality they may be right!
Personally I can't say that is what has happened in this case. Whether this is what they are doing now? I don't know. But I have a hard time trusting any one blindly with numbers and percentages.
I do agree with you Lagonda, most responsible adults will not support underaged drinking. And I for one do not support underaged drinking. But, to create a scare tactic for many people who believe and trust EVERYTHING they are told by some leaders is wrong. Alot of citizens will believe anything and everything they are told by those in political positions. I am just curious where these particular numbers came from.
If they are using the numbers of MIC's (minor in consumption) from local law enforcement busts, it could be that locals are just more into busting this type occurance than the next county is. We may not have any more teen drinkers than the next county, but the next county may not be as actively in pursuit of them, or documenting them. So I can see where the numbers would look off.
Uncontrolled drinking as a whole, whether underaged or legal age, creates an active environment for many domestic issues , as well as many other criminal offenses, they more than likely will go hand in hand with indulgence in alcohol or drugs. It will be interesting to know if those responsible for the tire slashings were drinking when the damage was done. It would be interesting to know. It may take some time but the culprits will be caught. People talk, and so do criminals. Somewhere, somehow, the responsible party will brag about it, and it will come full circle. Just wait and see.
"When writing grants for money, the grant writers can make the situation match the need for money. "
I know it is done. I have seen it personally in Cowley County. Let me remind everyone, grant writers included, when someone makes an untruthful fabrication in a proposal meant to qualify for money, that is fraud. When done in a grant application to the feds, that is a federal crime and is punishable by prison time. No matter how well intentioned the grant writer was in desiring to "stretch" the truth or dramatize the need, it is very illegal and should not be done. Nationwide, a lot of folks have done time in the big house for that one. Ask Boeing.
I am a firm believer that any public statements made by any law enforcement agency or elected official should be complete, honest and truthful. Any padding of statistics or misrepresentation of numbers only serves to create distrust of the authorities. If there are errors or misstatements, they should be corrected.
I was not suprised by the numbers. I would have thought them closer to 25% - 30%. At least that was my experience in ACHS. Maybe kids have slowed down or my age group was wild??? (Or, maybe they have changed their drug of choice?) If I remember right, there was a pretty high teenage pregnancy rate at that time, too.
Maybe these numbers were all made up, but I can personally testify that a VERY LARGE number of kids I went to school with were drinking on the weekends (1988 - 1991). 8 years later, I was shocked to find out the number of kids at ACHS who were using heroine.
My husband came from a very small town over east. He says that 40%-50% were drinking at his high school in his glory days. However, he says that now it's not cool to drink. They all smoke pot and use meth. How does he know that? Well... you all know that guy who hangs out at high school parties long after he graduates. You know, the old guy at the party still trying to hit on teenage girls? Well, anyway, there's more than one of those over east now. They told my husband and his friends that the teenie-bopper parties are like now days. Sad thing is, these older party-goers are probably helping them get it.
I bet you are glad to know we are all parents now, and some of my class has teenagers at home. One thing for sure, we are wise to the teenage ways! Ha-ha!
I'd guess there are about twice as many as the ACPD catch. Just like everything else, it is the same kids, and more older than younger.
SADD in the high school isn't any solution at all. Although it is probably fun and social and all of that, it is Orwell's Junior -- League, where all the kids sign up (to be obedient to the authorities) but only the ones at absolutely no risk of the issue participate.
The best way is enforcement and community service. When the cops catch a kid at an underage drinking party, give him 6 months of community service serving meals at a home. On Saturday and Sunday evenings. Or Saturday at 6 AM for breakfast. Or trash duty at Wilson Park. Laundry duty at the pool. Make him check in with the ACPD weekly with a sign-off sheet. Give him credit for the signed off sheets. No work? Extend the duty. Let's see: what pay scale? none.
There are WAY too many parents willing to throw money at their kids' bad behavior and never make changes. Proper enforcement can change that. Juvenile delinquency can not be fixed just with the parents paying money. There needs to be significant participation of the kids, too.
"No matter how well intentioned the grant writer was in desiring to "stretch" the truth or dramatize the need, it is very illegal and should not be done. Nationwide, a lot of folks have done time in the big house for that one. Ask Boeing." ___________________________________________________________
I certainly agree, it should be stopped. Even the most well intended use for the money may be the purpose. It still makes it wrong to manipulate the numbers.
I have to agree with all of you that all the statistics are really a bunch of hogwash, but I don't think that was the point of the whole meeting or it shouldn't have been anyway. I was not at the meeting(had to work), but I did read the article in the paper with great interest. I was really not stunned that their were 16 cases of sexual assaults and rapes reported, the stunning part is that many people actually reported it to the police. And I would betcha that there was actually way more that went unreported. Drinking tends to make people more sociable, outgoing and have feelings of being powerful. Drink too much and alcohol decreases the clarity of thought and self control, especially in the teenagers group when that is already a time of feeling invincible and they feel nothing bad can happen to them. It is not an excuse for a people to rape, beat on others, or damage property. I personally know someone (actually several) that has been in some of these situations and it didn't seem too important to the court system that the defendant was drinking, so the minor in consumption charge was dropped. Well, thats just a fine and dandy part of the plea bargaining process. A MIC is the least of the defendants problems when their are bigger charges to worry about? Would I dare say that it is the start of the problem? Doesn't what the police are saying at that meeting shout out something to the attorneys and courts? Would it do any good? Don 't know. Or are they listening? Sure, great idea, ask the towns people to watch for underage drinking. Thats a big laugh there, because even if they get caught, do we really think that is going to change them? Maybe a few, but not many. Soon as they walk out of that courtroom with a small fine and probabtion, they be laughing at the courts and right back to partying that night. Do more, especially to a repeat offender, let them see the consequences of what can happen when things go wrong while intoxicated. What ever happened to the scared straight program? Let them see and help take care of a brain dead or paralyzed person because of an intoxicated driver, make them chat with the guy sitting in prison, because he killed somebody while DUI. Let them talk to the person who is going to feel guilty the rest of his life for killing their boyfriend or girlfriend, because they was intoxicated! Point is, do more than giving these kids a free ride. K, going to get off my soapbox here, but that is my 2 cents.
From what I can tell there seems to have been a good-ole-boy system where you hire a local lawyer and he charges you $500 for the most pathetic and poorly researched 15 minutes of work product (they call it "representation") and you walk free. If you don't, you are guilty.
