AC cop: Kidnapping suspect a gang member

MB · Veteran Member

AC cop: Kidnapping suspect a gang member

I love being Right · Veteran Member

But this can't be true -- we don't have gangs in Ark City????

lagonda · Senior Member

"1. Coleman was identified as a gang member by one of his parents.
2. He was identified as a gang member by a law enforcement officer, with documentation.
3. Independent information also identified Coleman as a gang member.
4. He resides or frequents an area known to gang members and that includes the fact he has adopted the dress, handsigns, and tattoos of the gang.

"Another criteria would be that he has been arrested more than once in the company of gang members... and has been stopped in custody with known gang members two or more times," Scott said."

Nope. You are absolutely on target.
It sure is a breakthrough that he was arrested.
It was obviously a gang related crime. How many gang members were in the car?
According to the newscow, the police have documentation that he is a gang member. Probably his gang ID card they give you when you join. They have identified the area of town where the gangs have their headquarters, and identified the other gang members he hangs out with. It should be pretty simple now to round them all up and finally put an end to all of this gang conspiracy stuff. Wow, What a relief. (joke)

If you said it, it must be true.

On the other hand, could it be true? Let's do the test:
It "sounds" true, but what if you ask questions?

You said gangs in Ark City.

Where is this area of town identified as being known for gang members?
Is it in Ark City (or Wichita)? What street and what block?
What exactly is the "documentation" the police have? Is it just circular logic that the parents have said so, so now that is included as other "evidence"?
Independent information also identified him as a gang member. What?
Which gang? That is important. Which gang?
How do gang members dress? The last one I saw in East LA wore jeans, sneakers and a plaid shirt. Tattoos? 2 parlors in town. Half the people under 25 have tattoos.

If I had an answer to the questions, I might maybe believe some of it.

I'm still having a hard time with the kidnapping charge. How is this not a domestic violence issue? He refused to drop her off at her house in AC (was it his house too? apparently they were a couple) and drove her to his brother's house (brother-in-law) in Wichita and beat her up.

It all sounds like one of these afternoon court shows where everyone in the family fights with each other and there is at least one person who is just too stupid to stay out of jail.

There is no excuse for domestic violence and he should get his due for it.

But, sorry, it is not the big proof you are looking for.

Greenpiece · Veteran Member

yes , i think they may have been confuseing illegal immigrants with gang members

Elee · Veteran Member

You have to wonder why this information was not in the Traveler or the Courier. I think this is important information for the citizens to know. This confirms that we DO have gangs in the county/towns. To some this may not be as important as "What ever shall we put on the windows?". But I see it as good news reporting and digging to get the facts on this was great....Thanks News cow! Good job Judy!

dddfan · Veteran Member

ILBR
You are so right, we don't have gangs in Ark City. We just have wannabes. They don't commit crimes, they just do copy cat tags.
WAKE UP ARK CITY
The hawk

MB · Veteran Member

Oh that's correct ILBR we don't have gangs here in Ark city.. Silly me, What was I thinking? It's just little kids attempting to wear big boy thug pants and trying really hard to be the next Michelangelo. :)

I didn't see this posted yet, It was in the paper the other day and thought I would put it here...

Wave of vandalism hits Ark City
( AC Traveler 3-26-08)

" Veterans Lake was also the victim of vandalism; graffiti markings were found on wooden support structures at the lake. The markings are gang related, said Scott. The city is planning to send workers to cover or remove the markings. "

What I would like to know is..

Did the city remove it in 48 hours?

I guess we shall see...

me2 · Veteran Member

Exactly my thoughts! Hmmm.....

I love being Right · Veteran Member

I was being sarcastic I hope you know...

lagonda · Senior Member

You miss the point.

There are gang members and there are "gang members".
The question is if you went to some of these Ark City "surenos", etc and asked them if they were in the gang, they might say yes they are, and they dress-up and throw signs, get tats and steal small change and beer and "beats their b*tches" (in their vernacular) and do everything in their little retarded heads they can think of to be a gang member. Just like they "sees" on TV.

But if you were to go to the real gangs and ask if these street punks are "down and representin da Ark City hood" and are part of their gangs, they would laugh so hard they would wet their pants. (for those who don't get it, the answer is no.)

Folks in Ark City love to pretend, and who am I to say they can't. The lady that sits at the front desk and talks to people as they come in is the "director of public relations", the person that xeroxes a book they wrote and sells it at Graves Drug in a "renowned author", downtown is suffering from "urban blight" (not just 5 building owners who won't fix their windows) and the town is so thick with "bank vice-presidents" that eventually everybody with a degree will have been one.

There is a special cop-out the local law enforcement get when they can say "gang-related". It transfers the responsibility for a crime to an unknowable and unstoppable mysterious external group and throws into the mix the impossibility of it all.

In fact crime is committed by individuals who can be tracked and caught and put in jail. Don't let the local cops off the hook. When a kid paints a graffiti symbol he saw in a skateboarding magazine or the internet on a wall and the cops say it is a gang symbol, then it is obviously "proof" that a crime syndicate has moved into town. When some idiot beats his wife, let's call it a "gang related" crime and raise his bail. Even further "proof" of gang syndicate activity.

Not a kid vandalizing a wall, or an idiot beating his wife. Something much more and very scary and incurable.

I'm hoping the new Police Chief is knowledgeable and experienced enough to not fall into the trap of failing to track down individuals or exaggerating reports because the perps are gangsta wannabes. It is a good question: do we have an Andy or a Barney? Time will tell.

You want to pretend? Then fine, go for it. I understand. Its a lot of fun, like playing cowboys and indians, but at some point, do a reality check in your mind. These punk kids are no more "surenos" than they are Al-Queda or Sicilian mobsters.

S23246G · Senior Member

Why are you so defensive? And why do you want to defend gang members? I don't get it.

me2 · Veteran Member

It all starts with the little things! pretty soon it blows up in your face!

lagonda · Senior Member

"It all starts with the little things! pretty soon it blows up in your face!"

Agreed!!!!!!

Don't let these tagging kids get away with it by saying it is "gang activity" and ignoring them.
Stake them out, identify them, track them down arrest them. Once arrested, either jail or make them pay every freaking penny it takes to make the vandalized property just the way it was before the tagging.

Make them do public service for a loooong time with supervision.

Give them no other options. If Mommy and Daddy pay the local attorney flat rate of $500.00, don't just let them go free. Either jail or community service. No ifs or buts.

Everyone complains about trash downtown. Now that a downtown businessman has moved away and doesn't volunteer to pick up downtown trash on Saturday mornings, I think that could be a really good task some of these taggers could do.

John used to start sometimes at 6:00 AM. Good time to start. Every Saturday morning. Rain or shine. Central Business District plus Cowley parking lots. Make them wear flourescent vests for safety and to embarass the crap out of them. Do it for 6 months. Keep an eye on them.

I'll bet the tagging stops after the first one is done this way. Word spreads quickly.

CALLUS · Veteran Member

You make a some very good observations logonda. There are all types of gangs by the very definition of the word gang. And there are as you state wanna "B's" gang people and we seem to have the latter of the two here mostly. A few years back we had a guest from the Armed Services come in to talked to the High School students and he open with a remark stating he was a member of the baddest gang in the world the United States Marines, uhmm a gang member does that mean by definition that our law enforcement agency our gang member "YES" juist with a different agenda. There is a series show on cable TV called gangland I think one should watch this show and then wonder why do we call these kids around here gang members or watch 20/20 about some of the real bad gang stuff that goes on down south in California, Texas, and Florida. For those msot part we just have bored kids here looking for something to bragg about because if some one does not rat them out most of thte time they will not get caught by the local law enforcement gang of Ark City.

MB · Veteran Member

ILBR- I knew you were.. Hopefully you know I was as well.

I feel for the girlfriend and hope that she gets the help that she needs and leaves him, She's very lucky that he didn't kill her. I'm not going to sit here and consume everything that I read or hear... Or what someone tells me as truth.. That's insanely irresponsible. But we have the right to know ( Thanks Traveler for finally putting the story in the paper- Little late don't you think?) the facts and decide on our own accord. When there are kidnappings and other crimes being committed in this town I think it's the media's responsibility to inform us... Or all we'll read about is albino this and that. I'm also not going to sit here and try to convince anyone that there is or isn't gangs... We all have our opinions and that's what this board is about, Express them!

Lagonda- I didn't write the post, It was a copy and paste. Umm, I can't answer your questions considering I wasn't the one who talked to the police, But I provided the source and you have the right to email that person and pose your questions to them. But from some of your post I would like to say some stuff...

One- The post NEVER said that it was a gang related crime- But that he IS a gang member- Big big big difference. It looks like it's a Kansas law- What exactly that is the article doesn't state, Look it up if it's something that you want to know. But It looks like if your in a gang and you commit a crime your bond goes up? I'm new to all this...

Two- How is this NOT a kidnapping... I think if you were in a car with someone and they we're supposed to drop you off at your house and they DIDN'T and kept driving for an hour and got a GUN and threatened to shoot you.. Ummm what part of.. "The suspect drove the victim to Wichita against her will" did you not understand? He damn well should be charged with that along with the DV charges, He also threatened her life. He was also arrested on an outstanding warrant for a previous DV in Wichita.

The rest of your questions should be asked to someone else involved... One of the officers- Not us. I don't have the answers and I'm not going to pretend to.

Lagondas questions-

Where is this area of town identified as being known for gang members?
Is it in Ark City (or Wichita)? What street and what block?
What exactly is the "documentation" the police have? Is it just circular logic that the parents have said so, so now that is included as other "evidence"?
Independent information also identified him as a gang member. What?
Which gang? That is important. Which gang?
How do gang members dress? The last one I saw in East LA wore jeans, sneakers and a plaid shirt. Tattoos? 2 parlors in town. Half the people under 25 have tattoos."

But I will say- The tattoo part, Ohh freaking come on! If there is someone WITH gang tattoo's on their body that tells me that they are either in one or was in one. Oh wait- Nah! People ink their bodys to pretend play, Right? Your really reaching on that one. Lets debate this realistically or this becomes pointless.

Lagonda said: "In fact crime is committed by individuals who can be tracked and caught and put in jail. Don't let the local cops off the hook"

Really? That's always the case..? Yeah, I don't think so..

Lagonda said:" When a kid paints a graffiti symbol he saw in a skateboarding magazine or the Internet on a wall and the cops say it is a gang symbol, then it is obviously "proof" that a crime syndicate has moved into town. "

- So it's all skateboard punks, Huh? Every single spray painted sign.. Yes, Because we have to blame youth.. It couldn't be possible for a gang to be here. Oh and cops don't take classes to identify gang signs and related things... They just make it up out of thin air.

Lagonda said: "When some idiot beats his wife, let's call it a "gang related" crime and raise his bail."

- He didn't just beat her, He kidnapped her too. Also, Once again... this was NEVER a gang related crime, Don't quote stuff that wasn't said. They said he was a gang member and nothing said it was a gang related crime. I went ahead and looked it up and they have to prove he is one, Then his bail is set to $50,000 because he's one and committed a crime. KS statue 21-4229.

lagonda · Senior Member

Coleman should be put away. ACPD apparently had the chance and missed it. I'd love to see the newspaper article on that one, but you probably never will.
Tats in Ark City are not really a gang thing, they are a show-off thing. When you see teardrops, get concerned.
Yes kids get tats with gang signs because they think it is cool. They also wear do-rags, etc as a style statement. They also steal things, vandalize property and tag signs to show off to their friends.
I've told a number of these kids to never go into a big city with do-rags and throwing signs because it will get them killed and they won't even know why. These are rural kids playing dress up.

Pick them up and put them into detention.

me2 · Veteran Member

Ok, I have been thinking a lot on this subject on gangs in Ark City and I think we are all missing the big picture here. I usually do not have a lot to say when I post because I don't care to sit here and type a lot, but I do have alot of thoughts on this subject.

What I do think is that yes, we do have gangs here, at least the wanna be's and yes we do have real gang members here in Ark City. Keep in mind the key word here is MEMBERS. AC is close enough to Wichita that it would not be surprising to have some members living here. In my opinion, the article or the police are not saying we have an actual gang here, but that the police has actual documentation that the guy is a gang MEMBER and also I know a number of people who firmly stand their ground in saying the guy involved in the Winfield shooting from AC is a gang MEMBER. I also would wager a high bet, if I had the money to, that some of the people I see go to a house the next block over from mine are members of a gang from out of town.

Lagonga says:
if you were to go to the real gangs and ask if these street punks are "down and representin da Ark City hood" and are part of their gangs, they would laugh so hard they would wet their pants.
Not a good idea, that would maybe backfire and bring real trouble to our town or maybe they really would laugh, but I am gonna take a pretty good guess that no one in their right mind would go ask a real member whaat they think!

I do know someone that knows that their is a Sureno(spelling?) living here that moved from out of state, but that person is no longer active in a gang by their choice. And who is to say that one of the wannabes might have one real violent temper and bad*** attitude when they grow up? Maybe not, but it could happen in this day and age when our youth are exposed to so many stressors and trying to find places to fit in

Now the question is: what can be done about to stop or slow this problem in its tracks? Every one here posting on this subject seems to show concern no matter what their belief is about real or wannabe gangs. The police and city are doing what they can to stop this, like the graffitti problem. Should the gang resistance program be brought back or does that just show these kids how to be a gang member? My thought is, is to bring some real gang members ( the ones that are no longer active in a gang) to Ac to chat with the high school and middle school kids and tell them what really happens in the real life in a gang. That could possibly scare some enough to know they would have to watch their backs everytime they step out of their home if they was really livin in "da hood!" We have got to start finding solutions instead of bickering and seeing who can win the debate about if these are just kids or real gangs. Anyone else care to share their thoughts?

lagonda · Senior Member

I won't discuss the real vs. wannabes either. There are wannabes in Ark City and to control them you have to understand them.

"Should the gang resistance program be brought back or does that just show these kids how to be a gang member?"

Pretty close to my position, actually. It doesn't show them how, but it shows them what we fear, and that then becomes appealing to them and they go that direction.

Put yourself in the mindset of an adolescent and an arrested development young adult (the subject of the problem and there are many in AC).
I'll call them all kids. They are.

The majority of kids want to learn, play by the rules and, more likely than not, do what they can to get along and better themselves. Don't need to worry about them. You can have seminars and DARE classes and awareness dialogues with them and they will pay attention and learn something and most could pass a test on the issues. Many people would say that this is a satisfactory solution.

It is a complete waste of time, which is why the DARE program hasn't made any significant reduction in drug use. The kids who pay attention to such programs are not the ones who are the problem. You could save the time with the program and have the same results.

If there is someone who will use drugs or steal or tag graffiti or commit violence, a seminar in the afternoon led by any kind of authority, culture cohort or expert, will "never" convince them to not do it. The kids that are young enough to be impressionable that are likely to go that direction will be "greatly impressed" by the adults' apparent fear of the stated risk, whether it is drugs or gang activity.

That perceived fear drives the kids sense of self-importance and attracts them to do exactly what they are being told not to do. It makes them powerful in their own self-image. A lot of educators make a big thing about self-esteem. It works both ways. With good kids it is positive. With bad kids, it is very negative. Their self esteem is about doing something they think others will regard as being tough, rebellious or independent. They are very firmly driven toward it. It is their self-image of who they are.

When one of these graffiti kids sees the paper talking about gang activity and adults acting scared about it and going in big fear circles, it makes them powerful. They know the truth. They know who they are, remember where they put the spray can and they see the newspaper article as making them famous.

What the newspaper should report is vandalism, not "gang activity". The solution is more patrolling. Maybe a neighborhood watch group. Catch them. I'll bet if you caught 4 kids it would all be over. A lot could be done if you will just turn off the porch light when you sit outside at night. Look around.

With a crime? Report the crime. Maybe the guy "is" a gang member. That doesn't change the crime and it damned sure doesn't prevent anyone from incarcerating or otherwise punishing the criminal. Any reporting of these turkeys as "gang members" just makes them seem more scary to us and more powerful and attractive in their own minds and to their friends. In a strange way it makes impressionable kids want to be like them and imitate them. They are now famous (definitely in their own minds) and we made them that way. We make a large part of our own problems.

We should stop. Now.

me2 · Veteran Member

Glad to see Lagonda is a know it all and has all the solutions in a bag.

MB · Veteran Member

Yeah, I agree. Maybe Lagonda should tackle global warming next- Oh wait let me guess, There ISN'T any?

lagonda · Senior Member

It is better than running around like Chicken Little screaming the "the sky is falling" ("were being invaded by scary gangland criminals") every time the neighbor kid vandalizes the mailbox with spray paint.

It is silly.

S23246G · Senior Member

We're being invaded alright. By liberals! MMMWHAHAHAHA (mine is an evil laugh!)

me2 · Veteran Member

LOL! You're funny S23246G.

S23246G · Senior Member

Kidnapping suspect charged but is released
By Judy Welch
April 1, 2008 - 1:11:52 pm
Cowley County Attorney Chris Smith has charged the common-law husband of an Arkansas City woman with aggravated kidnapping and domestic battery, he said today. Robert Coleman, 26, could spend up to 55 years in prison if convicted of the kidnapping charge.

He was believed to be living in Arkansas City when he is alleged to have driven the 28-year-old woman to Wichita against her will Wednesday, beat her up, and, armed with a gun, threatened to shoot her before she escaped when he stopped at a Wichita intersection.

Coleman was arrested and jailed by Wichita police on a domestic violence warrant. Cowley County authorities had a hold on Coleman and should have been notified before he was released from the Sedgwick County jail, but he was released without Cowley County being notified, Smith said.

"We had a 48-hour affidavit signed by a judge that should have held Mr. Coleman," Smith said. "I don't know what happened."

The victim's name has not been released for her protection. Coleman is believed a member of a Wichita gang.

WONDERFUL! I wonder if we'll ever see him again, or if he will kill his wife before he skips the country? Maybe they can let Justin Thurber out so he can look for him... he was a bounty hunter after all. Buncha tards.

motherof2 · Senior Member

One time, I had the misfortune of seeing a man's stomach sliced open over a drug deal gone bad. I was at a friends house when a woman came over asking us to call 911. When I went next door (was warned not to, but didn't listen) I saw the man sitting in a chair holding his gut together with a towel. I was told by the lady that he owed a Wichita gang money for drugs and couldn't pay. This was about 14 years ago. Made an impression on me! I do not want gangs here. As long as there are drugs coming from big cities, there will be gang involvement.

MB · Veteran Member

How kind of them to not release her name to protect her, But they released him before Cowley could get ahold of him on his kidnapping charges- NICE, WTG Wichita! I hope she has some type of protection.

motherof2 · Senior Member

Ok, I'm stupid here. Why was he released? Did he make bail, or did they just let him go until his trial?

Greenpiece · Veteran Member

i bet he went to mexico hehehe

CALLUS · Veteran Member

me2 wrote:

LOL! You're funny S23246G.

no his is serious like nuts falling off of tree's in the middle of a snow storm furious

me2 · Veteran Member

Dude, lighten up! I think S23246G is trying to find a little humor here!