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Post Info TOPIC: Presidential Race 2008


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Presidential Race 2008


Is everyone following the Iowa Caucus?  I think it looks like Hillary isn't going to pull it off, can we get that lucky??  Her fellow democratic rivals are rumored to put their support behind Obama if it gets to it. biggrin



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If I was voting for a Dem, it would be Edwards. I was going for him the last time he ran.

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Here it is only January and already I'm tired of this process. AS a Kansas I feel we have so little influence on who the parties will eventually nominate that it's not even interesting to watch.

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Ron Paul in 2008. Just give him a listen, more than FOX could do.

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I like a lot of what Ron Paul has to say, but I just don't feel he's electable. If I thought he had a snowball's chance, I'd give him my vote. This country needs an enema... or a nice revolution.

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Did everyone see where Huckabee said he'd like to change the Constitution of the United States to be more in line with the bible? jeezus! I'm surprised at how the news media has pretty much killed the story. Imagine a country where instead of having freedom of/from religion, we are forced to hear it in schools, courts, and anywhere else President Huckabee sees fit. Sounds a lot like Nazi Germany!

And what parts of the bible will we put in the Constitution? The part that says the Earth is only 6 thousand years old, AND the center of the universe? Or the part where it says we should stone to death our teenage children who show us disrespect? Who gets to choose? Him?

I will keep my constitution just as it is, Mr. Huckabee, and you have lost a vote from me... even if it means (I can't believe I'm going to type this) ...I have to vote for a Democrat!

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The more I hear out of Huckabee the more he scares me. I don't think his record is that conservative anyway.

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So, who's left? Anyone care for Romney?

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The main thing I agree with Ron Paul on is "less government". Personally, I am sick of our government and I'm sure other countries are, too!

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If you elect Hillary your not going to get "less government". The Dems are all about big govenment and how they should run everything. I'm not sure I understand why everyone is so down on our government? We live in the greatest nation on Earth! What is there to be so upset about?

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You do realize that the Republicans have greatly expanded the size and power the gov't has over the past 8 years? I would take gov't expansion with the purpose of helping people over expansion to violate our liberties.

Dems think they should run everything within our country, Republicans think they should run everything within our world (well some of them anyways).

I'm kind of down about that whole war, national debt, degrading of social programs thing.

Are you sure this is the greatest nation on Earth? Have you lived in other nations for an extended period of time? A little ethocenterism for all of us.

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"I'm not sure I understand why everyone is so down on our government?"

I might be able to help here.

We have a president who lied to the public about the connection of Iraq and Saddam Hussein to the 9/11 attacks and lied about Iraq having NBC Mass Weapons (nuclear biological and chemical) in order to start an unnecessary and endless war. The largest civilian Iraq war contract was given to Kellogg, Brown and Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, the company which Vice President Cheney was recently CEO, and this contract was given without any bidding process whatsoever.

Since receiving a sweetheart deal from the U.S. government, KBR has transferred the employment nationality of 10,500 U.S. citizen employees from the U.S. to a dummy corporation in Georgetown, Grand Cayman, BWI to avoid paying millions in U.S. Social Security and Medicare taxes. Halliburton has moved their corporate headquarters and CEO from Houston, Texas to Dubai, United Arab Emirates, also in an attempt to avoid paying U.S. taxes on the multi-billion dollar contracts they have received from the current government.

The government has agreed to pay $40 billion+ to a foreign multi government owned and subsidized aircraft manufacturer (EADS) for strategic military supply planes in a move that will substantially impact the largest manufacturer (and their suppliers) in Wichita and directly effect a number of families in Ark City who have salary support from Boeing or their suppliers.

Although we and the U.N. are in control of Afghanistan, the heroin production in that country is higher than it has ever been in history and there are no plans to end it. There are no plans to return control of Afghanistan to the Afghanis.

We are in a war that was based on protecting the Iraqi's from Saddam Hussein, yet we have killed more Iraqi's and made more refugees than Saddam ever did, and there is no reasonable plan to end the war in Iraq, either now or ever.

The U.S. government is now engaging in a policy of torture to extract confessions, something that virtually every intelligence officer in the U.S. military has indicated doesn't work, which is a violation of the Geneva Convention and is a policy that puts our military personnel in jeopardy of similar treatment in the future.

The government's primary negotiator in the middle east is Condi Rice, who although very knowledgeable and fluent in many languages is put in a position of attempting to negotiate with a culture which doesn't permit women to drive or hold property or be in public without their husbands. How is that working out?

The government has orchestrated the largest of capital flight in the U.S. history to China and even permits U.S. corporations to deduct costs of moving factories from the U.S. to China and permits deductions for manufacturing equipment costs for factories in China.

And the monkey-eared squirrel in the White House is more interested in playing dress-up "hard a$$" cowboy on his "ranch" than he is on straightening anything out. Some people might be fooled by the boots, but I can see they're not broken in. Drugstore Cowboy.

Each and every candidate has a plan to straighten it out. We can only pray that GWB and Cheney are replaced before they make another ill conceived half-witted decision about going to war with Iran, Chad, France or Scotland.

Does that help any?

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Your post was very thought out and insightful Lagonda, and I agree with most of it. And I'd raise you a NAFTA and a National debt in the trillions. AND a president who can't even put a sentence together.

But, I have to disagree about the torture thing. Works great for me!

- Jack Bauer

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Also, I forgot:

Can anyone tell me what Halliburton's primary business is?

Hint: it is not military support.

Thank you.

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You know you could make an argument about what all the Presidents and their policies have done wrong in the past. Alot of your argument is opinion. So here is mine...I believe GWB is a great man and truly wants what is best for our Country and others. He wants other countries to have the freedoms that we do and he wanted to bring peace to the Middle East - but I don't think that will ever happen. I honestly, with all my heart do not believe he lied. There were alot of other Senator's that believed the same thing and had access to the same information. It's so easy to believe this idea that he lied just to get Sadam -- but just because you CHOOSE to believe that. You do not have any hard evidence for all your opinions other than the side of the story that you choose to believe. WMD or not, they were in violation of the UN Sanctions and thank God GWB had the balls to go in there. What would we be saying if he hadn't and something had happened? You just can't make everyone happy and sometimes have to do what is best for the people, unpopular or not. That's what LEADERS do. He has done a great job protecting our country since 9/11. After Clinton chose thru out his 8 years to hide his head and just do nothing. (oh, I forgot I think we all know he was doing something) I'm not even going to go into all his failed policies. And Hillary --didn't she try this Health Care thing once before? Just because these canidates have a "plan to straighten it all out" doesn't mean they are going to actually do that. Anyone can stand up there and tell you that kind of crap, and obviously your believing it.

I'm not saying there haven't been failed policies, but the President does not run the government alone. How many things has the Democratic controlled Congress passed so far? Not much. You want government expansion with the purpose of helping people - translation: to create more welfare programs - because that's what they are. And I don't feel anyone has violated my liberties.

Yes I am sure this is the greatest nation on Earth and that fact that your not so sure, helps me understand your type of thinking even more.

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One of Ann Coulter's quotes from today says it pretty best:

"Liberals believe, often accurately, that if they say the same thing over and over again 1 billion times, people will believe it: "Bush lied, kids died," "We've lost in Iraq," "Reagan is stupid," "Bush is stupid," "Republicans are stupid," "Global warming is destroying the planet," "Gloria Steinem is good-looking" and their most provably false assertion "Bill Clinton is the most talented politician of his generation."



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Yeah. I get all of my news from Ann Coulter, too.
I hope you are not trying to call me a liberal.

No beliefs or opinions. Facts.

And the UN? Funny. They opposed us on the invasion. That's why the U.S. did it on its own.

There are transcripts of Cheney planning an invasion of Iraq even before anything was done in Afghanistan.

I used to support the party, but I have become so disgusted with the last administration I am not sure what to think.

The republican party has shed their sensibilities and has been hijacked by nutcases. Too bad. They used to have something. They don't now.

The reason people say Bush is stupid is because he is.

McCain has 10 times the intellect that Shrub has and his dad has 50 times.

SG: "But, I have to disagree about the torture thing. Works great for me!"

Philosophically, if I was asked if I would permit waterboarding or electrocution to prevent a terrorist attack, I think I would say yes if it did the job (it's not my call, thank God). If asked to personally pull the trigger point-blank on someone whose death would prevent the death of 50 innocents, I'd take the shot. No prob. Maybe even reload for the next one and call him into the room. But I would have to be sure we shot the right person.

The problem is that once you open torture up as a standard policy and you have idiots running the show you get everyone, guilty and innocent, and their dog being sent off to "special" prisons for torture. It creates martyrs and new "George Washingtons" in places we don't need them.

If you look at WWII history, the Nazis started with torture and stopped it completely.
The reason? Not that it was cruel, it was that it just didn't work.

I'm sure it was done by the C.I.A. in the past. Nowhere close to the scale it is done now.

It's time for America to come to the realization that the right wing talk radio guys are p#####g
on your boot while telling you that it is raining outside.

They are nothing more than apologists for Bush.

The reason Limbaugh's career is a dead duck with McCain is because McCain is not the person that Bush is and McCain won't need Limbaugh's (or anyone else's) help to "explain it all away" and fight McCain's opponents.

On anything.

McCain will take care of that himself.

If policies have a sound basis, you don't have to spend so much time and effort attacking opponents, calling them names and claiming your opponents believe falsehoods.

Have you noticed just how much name calling and claims of falsehoods that McCain has made in his campaign? None.

Sunshine is a wonderful disinfectant. It takes care of many odorous smells. Even the ones on the radio and TV.

Oh, by the way. I have been other places.
The United States is the best nation in the world.

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I love being Right wrote:

You know you could make an argument about what all the Presidents and their policies have done wrong in the past. Alot of your argument is opinion. So here is mine...I believe GWB is a great man and truly wants what is best for our Country and others. He wants other countries to have the freedoms that we do and he wanted to bring peace to the Middle East - but I don't think that will ever happen. I honestly, with all my heart do not believe he lied. There were alot of other Senator's that believed the same thing and had access to the same information. It's so easy to believe this idea that he lied just to get Sadam -- but just because you CHOOSE to believe that. You do not have any hard evidence for all your opinions other than the side of the story that you choose to believe. WMD or not, they were in violation of the UN Sanctions and thank God GWB had the balls to go in there. What would we be saying if he hadn't and something had happened? You just can't make everyone happy and sometimes have to do what is best for the people, unpopular or not. That's what LEADERS do. He has done a great job protecting our country since 9/11. After Clinton chose thru out his 8 years to hide his head and just do nothing. (oh, I forgot I think we all know he was doing something) I'm not even going to go into all his failed policies. And Hillary --didn't she try this Health Care thing once before? Just because these canidates have a "plan to straighten it all out" doesn't mean they are going to actually do that. Anyone can stand up there and tell you that kind of crap, and obviously your believing it.



So we shouldn't blame Bush for his failed policy because other leaders had failed policies too?? You say he's done a great job protecting our country, yet there have been huge increases in terroist recruiting and anti-american sentiment in many other parts of the world. The fact is, George W. has polarized the rest of the world with United States forigen policy. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and nothing to do with Afghanistan. We found nothing in Iraq to justify the war other than taking Saddam out of power and trying to impose democracy on them. By attaking without the cooperation of other nations, he's seriously damaged our ability to work with other countries in the future. 

Ann Colture can stand up there and say things that you believe, so is it fair to say that she is spewing a bunch of crap that you're just believing? Isn't she voting for Hillary?


I love being Right wrote:



I'm not saying there haven't been failed policies, but the President does not run the government alone. How many things has the Democratic controlled Congress passed so far? Not much. You want government expansion with the purpose of helping people - translation: to create more welfare programs - because that's what they are. And I don't feel anyone has violated my liberties.




The "Democratic controlled Congress" is like 3 seats up in the Senate, and not too many in the House either. Also, don't ignore the fact that Bush has vetoed almost every piece of legislation that has passed since '06.

More welfare programs? That's a load of crap, for some reason every program that Democrats try to pass is called welfare. Since when did trying to make secondary education and health care available for everybodyd become welfare? Secondly, what is wrong with welfare? I encourage you to talk to some people on welfare and see what they have to say, there seems to be a sterotype going around that people on welfare are lazy in don't want to work. As a matter of fact, most of the people feel bad about having to be on welfare, but realize that there isn't any other option until something else comes along.
 
I feel like all the wiretapping and loose government regulations on such things are a serious violation of my liberties, but I guess since you don't feel that way it's alright, I'm sure your feelings/opinions matter more than mine.

I love being Right wrote:



Yes I am sure this is the greatest nation on Earth and that fact that your not so sure, helps me understand your type of thinking even more.



 
You're certain this is the greatest nation on Earth without ever living in another country?? Once again, ethnocenterism. You believe that our way of doing things is the only and best way of doing, when in fact it may not be. Are you not even open to the possibilty that there are better ways of living or running a country? I mean, who are we to pass a value judgement on the greatness of a nation without having been encultured in that nation? Earlier this week I say a video about the people of Bhutan (country in the Himalyas right by Mt. Everst) who were getting T.V. for the first time. More than one person has said that they now realize how fortunate they are to live in Bhutan after watching American News and seeing how many bad things are going on. This has nothing to do with being patriotic and saying that the U.S. is the greatest nation, it's about being realistic. I think true patriotism is being able to take a look at our country from the outside without any prejudice about the 'greatness' of this country and addressing the issues honestly. The fact that you're so sure about this countries greatness without any prior experience in other countries helps me understand the ignorance in your type of thinking. You have no right to make a value judgement on a nation you've never lived in.

I'm pretty sure unless they are giving some hard numbers and facts, almost everything that anybody says is opinion. If fact, I would go as far to say that everything is opinion because different people can interpret numbers and facts differently. It's just that some opinions make more sense and appear better than others.

By the way, thanks for abandoning all the arguments made about the Rep expanding the gov't, I assume since they're ignored then there isn't a counter to them?

Lagonda- I'm trying to make a distinct between being to other places and actually living in them with their culture. For example I have a family friend who moved from the U.S. to the U.K. after living in the U.S. for about 18 years (born and raised in the U.S.). He has told me that at first he extremely preffered the U.S. way of life, but after he start to get more involved with the U.K. culture he now prefers it. I also have problems with the way we try to judge what is the best nation in the world. We try and apply standards to other cultures based on our experience with our culture, but this gives other cultures a bad rap. I don't think it is possible to make an unbiased value judgement on another country and thier culture without having been apart of it, and since it is impossible for one person to become part of all cultures they should be evaluated without applying values to it. We look at some countries and say that they have a low standard of living, yet the people in that country would say that they are living a good life and have everything they need. Who are we to tell them that they way their living isn't good?



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"I'm trying to make a distinct between being to other places and actually living in them with their culture."

OK. Me too. There are probably some equivalents or close seconds to the U.S. like England, Canada, Finland, Holland, Germany (today), etc.

But it is not like living in Winfield and Ark City and saying one is better than another because of city (or country) pride or team spirit. It comes down to things like do the air conditioners work? Are you likely to be imprisoned for no cause? How likely are you to be blown up by a nutcase? Does 80% of your income go to taxes, even though you have free health care and retirement. Do you pay $8.00/ gallon for fuel, that sort of thing.

There may be other countries that are close, but in the big picture, I would much rather live in the U.S. than any other place in the world. I've looked at it pretty closely and I'm sure.

That being said, I might want to retire in St. Thomas USVI, or Key West or Hawaii, but that is the U.S. too.

There is no place in the world that gives you the freedoms and options that the U.S. does.

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I wasn't getting my news from Ann Coulter -- just quoting her. I dont' have a problem with your opinions -- and I didn't say mine were right -- I was simply stating them and they are mine-- but thanks for trying to put the smack down on me. Still doesn't change my way of thinking.

What exactly do you support Lagonda? Are you supporting McCain? And El Rushbo was around long before GWB was President -- I think he had quite a run during the Clinton years as well - over 20 years and going strong.

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Rush?: Clinton bashing was his claim to fame, and the current administration came out of the Clinton bashing that he created, in the post Reagan years. We have seen the Newts and Tom Delays gone and Rush and Coulter are probably gone too, unless they can stir up their careers with something in the current campaign. They know this, but don't have many options. If McCain is elected, Rush can say what? Something is still Bill and Hillary's fault after all this time? I don't think anyone but the real nutcases cares anymore about Hillary bashing, and I doubt McCain would have anything to do with it.

When the bloom is off this rose it won't be ditto-heads, it will be more like dodo-heads. A lot of people will feel pretty embarrassed about blindly repeating the right wing talk show hosts.

Anyway,: Who to support?

Good question. I'm not too crazy about McCain on his "be in Iraq for 100 years" concept, and I'm afraid of his age and the possibility that Rove and the other Bush admin people will be pulling puppet strings in the background. I'm sure he is strong enough and has integrity enough to keep it from happening directly, but if anything happened to him, it would just be the same old thing again, maybe worse. That would be really bad for the country.

I think I'm going to keep an eye on the Dems. There is "some ways to go" and a lot can happen between now and then. We'll see.

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Clinto did put NAFTA into play after all... and look ho w great that's been. Hillary tries to say she didn't have input into that process, but that she was Bill's right hand gal when it comes to anything good that happened. I say you can't have it both ways... either you did nothing as first lady, or you had a hand in ALL of it.. good AND bad. And let's face it, there was a lot of bad.

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I think her "I was in the White House for 8 years, so I know how to do the job" is such a joke. How many people are married and KNOW how to do your spouse's job? I don't know why exactly but she's just not very likeable. Obama is pretty much identical on most issues, and even was voted the most Liberal Senator of 2007, but he is so much easier to listen to and LIKE.

I think it would be interesting to see if he got elected how much "change" he could actually bring about. Their always full of promises, but it's tough to actually get stuff done. Or if they really plan on trying. I think he is going to have his hands full with his Pastor scandal though. That's some pretty hateful stuff he's spouting from the pulpit.

Hillary wakes Bill about 3 am to tell him she has to go to the bathroom. He asks her "Why are you waking me to tell me that?" She says, "I want you to save my place." biggrin

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When the phone rings in the white house at 3 A.M... Hillary tells bill to quite having his girlfriends call the house.

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Hilliary helped with everything that went right during Bill's admin, she didn't help with anything that went wrong. I thought that was common knowledge....

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"Hilliary helped with everything that went right during Bill's admin, she didn't help with anything that went wrong. I thought that was common knowledge...."

How completely wrong and how could you so completely miss the point of the people on this blog so thoroughly??????????

They are saying that Hillary helped with everything that went wrong with Bill Clinton's administration and as everybody knows there wasn't anything at all that went RIGHT (and I mean radical right) with Bill Clinton's admin.

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I smell.....





A LIBERAL!


Pew!


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Yeah, I probably deserved that one, but I couldn't resist the joke. It just seemed so appropriate and I couldn't help myself.

Honestly, Hillary Clinton probably didn't have much to do with the outcome of the Clinton admin one way or the other.

It is no more correct to say she contributed only to the good than to say she contributed only to the bad. I can't see she can claim anything about it.

Nancy Reagan consulted fortune tellers to help Ron schedule his meetings, but nobody considered that to be anything to consider and I don't either. The only one that had a significant influence that comes to my mind is Roosevelt, and even she is not known in history books as significantly influential.

In my opinion, the spouse doesn't count. No points.

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"In my opinion, the spouse doesn't count. No points."

I totally agree. But that IS the backbone of her whole campaign... that if the phone rings at 3 in the morning, all her prior experience of running the country (from behind Bill) will come into play, and she will know exactly what to do in any situation from day one, and that Obama is JUST a senator, and knows nothing.

So, throw out the argument that being first lady was just like running the show, and you might as well throw out her whole campaign.

Sounds great to me!


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Funny. I'm kind of OK with it too.

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