Illegal immigrants

Bruce · Member

RE: Illegal immigrants

S23246G · Senior Member

I would hate for it to seem that I am being too negative yet again by asking for clarification, but when local law enforcement DOES run into a van full of illegals (or those not able to show legality), then are they just let go and ignored because it is too much hassle, or do they contact ICE or any other federal law enforcement agency? From your article it would seem that they are let go. I realize that Deputies enforce State laws and County resolutions (which are much like City ordinances, but adopted for County use), and City Police enforce City ordinances, but are there no State laws on the books regarding illegal aliens? Maybe we should make being in this country (or State, or City) ILLEGALLY a State Law, or even a City Ordinance or County resolution.

So, Mr. McDonald, I'm curious... was that the first time you had heard of that article from the AP, and the first time you'd heard that Cowley County was now a "hot spot" for illegals stealing peoples identities? What did you think? Still think our way of life is in no jeapordy? Still think nothing should be done about it? Still think their money spends just as well as the next guys? I'm sorry to sound negative, but it's attitudes like that that will lead to this country being completely over ran, and our whole culture being turned on it's ear.

I sincerely hope it bothers you to know the mentioned facts, and that you find little ways to help, even if it means just voting for new laws. or enforcing existing laws that concern illegals.

I hope I wasn't too negative.

redd rover · Senior Member

This is a web site that after a little bit of internet research I found in regard to finger printing legal imigrants. It appears that all LEGAL imigrants are finger printed. So there is some record of them in that FBI data base Mr Mc is speaking about.

(e) Fingerprinting .

http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=9782321602a1ddd3d54a3e8a55e2dcae

(1) General . USCIS regulations in this chapter, including the instructions to benefit applications and petitions, require certain applicants, petitioners, beneficiaries, sponsors, and other individuals to be fingerprinted on Form FD-258, Applicant Card, for the purpose of conducting criminal background checks. On and after December 3, 1997, USCIS will accept Form FD-258, Applicant Card, only if prepared by a USCIS office, a registered State or local law enforcement agency designated by a cooperative agreement with USCIS to provide fingerprinting services (DLEA), a United States consular office at United States embassies and consulates, or a United States military installation abroad. (Amended effective 6/18/07; 72 FR 19100 )

(2) Fingerprinting individuals residing in the United States . Beginning on December 3, 1997, for naturalization applications, and on March 29, 1998, for all other applications and petitions, applications and petitions for immigration benefits shall be filed as prescribed in this chapter, without completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. After the filing of an application or petition, USCIS will issue a notice to all individuals who require fingerprinting and who are residing in the United States, as defined in section 101(a)(38) of the Act, and request their appearance for fingerprinting at a USCIS office or other location designated by USCIS, to complete Form FD-258, Applicant Card, as prescribed in paragraph (b)(9) of this section. (Amended effective 6/18/07; 72 FR 19100 )

(3) Fingerprinting individuals residing abroad . Individuals who require fingerprinting and whose place of residence is outside of the United States, must submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, at the time of filing the application or petition for immigration benefits. In the case of individuals who reside abroad, a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, is one prepared by USCIS, a United States consular office at a United States embassy or consulate or a United States military installation abroad. If an individual who requires fingerprinting and is residing abroad fails to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, at the time of filing an application or petition, USCIS will issue a notice to the individual requesting submission of a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. The applicant or petitioner will also be notified of the request for submission of a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. Failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, in response to such a request within t he time allotted in the notice will result in denial of the application or petition for failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. There is no appeal from denial of an application or petition for failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. A motion to re-open an application or petition denied for failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, will be granted only on proof that: (Introductory text amended effective 6/18/07; 72 FR 19100 )

Mr MC wrote:When dealing with someone who the police or deputy believe is illegal and is lying about their name, the police or deputy run their fingerprints through the FBI Rapid Response Center. About 30 minutes later they either reply with the persons real name or that the person is not in the system which means they have never been fingerprinted.

So in other words, if they haven't been finger printed then they are more than likely illegals. If this is what the law is allowing city and county law enforcment, why are they not implementing this? I know you can't speak for the county, but for the city you could answer this.

And the van load ( a driver with a MO DL and a passenger with a mexican ID) and 15-17 other passengers stacked in the back) of admitted illegals that the deputy stopped east of town a couple years ago could have been detained or subject to being detained. The infraction could have been having too many passengers to safely riding in a vehicle. Or something as simple as not enough seat belts for all passengers in the vehicle. But the deputy was told by the deputy's supervisor to let them go. Even though the deputy notified the supervisor of the problem with the amount of passengers in the vehicle. So in other words, the local department just turned their heads and let them go knowing that the law had been broked just because they didn't want to DEAL with this situation. The deputy on site of the stop did what the deputy was told per the supervisor. There were absolutely too many of the subjects stopped to be safely processed by one deputy 15 miles from civilization. The supervisor opted not to back up this deputy.

This is one reason I have a problem with what is going on in our city and county, if we make it easy for them to be here, or pass through, they will COME!!!!
As long as we are complacent with the illegals we come in contact with, the word will get around and more and more will come. And why not, we have jobs and no one to ask questions if they do have any contact with law enforcement. I would say the perfect hot bed for activity.

S23246G · Senior Member

I place very little blame for our illegal immigrant problem with the immigrants themselves. If I were living in those conditions, such as a corrupt, oppressive government... (oh wait...) then I might try to find greener pastures as well. I lay the bulk of the blame at the feet of our government, most of whom are puppets for big bussiness, and the industries (such as meat packing) who rely on illegals for low cost labor. I blame those in power at any level, for not enforcing existing laws when it comes to illegals being in this country. We have practicaly rolled out the welcome mat by having borders that are easier to cross than summit street after school gets out. They have opened the door to the downfall of our country, and it's a shame no one cares. In 50 years this country will be completely over run, and there won't be a damn thing we will be able to do about it then.

Please take a few minutes to watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

And that's just the "legal" ones.

longtimer · Veteran Member

A few points about illegal immigrants:

1. We don't need America's version of the Berlin Wall.
2. They come here looking for work. Take away the work and they'll stop coming.
3. The statement that illegals do jobs Americans won't do is an incomplete statement. To be accurate it needs to say "Illegal immigrants will do jobs Americans won't do FOR THE MONEY BUSINESS OWNERS WANT TO PAY".

Maurer Neuier (sp?) employed white and black AMERICAN workers who made good wages. When the union was broken and wages fell to poverty level the illegals came to take the jobs.

If those who knowingly hire illegals are forced to pay real fines for doing so, the jobs will go away. With no jobs to be had the illegals will stop coming, end of problem. Of course the employers will have to pay more money for workers so our produce & meat products will cost more.

So, we spend billions of tax dollars to erect the American Wall or we spend a bit more for our food. Which do you prefer? Personally I see value in keeping Americans working and making enough to support their families. Yes, even if it costs a bit more.

uniontrooper · Member

Illegal immigration is a sore subject with me.... I would love be charged with placing a few armored divisions at and near the border, along with a wing of A-10`s.
However, I believe if it WANTED to, our government could and would stop illegal immigration in its tracks. Trouble is, too many people in Washington are making a lot of money off of it. Because of this, ICE is told to let them go more often than not.
Yes, they obtain fake ID`s, green cards, etc., but you know an illegal when you see one (or listen to one speak). Note that the Hispanics who are U.S. natives, when they speak Spanish, it is not the same accent or dialect as the illegals`. Dead giveaway.
Blame Corporate America for it being so easy for them to pour in here..... also note Bush`s track record on immigration reform and his "guest-worker" program. Remember, he and Vicente Fox, former president of Mexico are very good friends. Birds of a feather, my friends.

Patrick · Senior Member

redd rover wrote:

This is a web site that after a little bit of internet research I found in regard to finger printing legal imigrants. It appears that all LEGAL imigrants are finger printed. So there is some record of them in that FBI data base Mr Mc is speaking about.

(e) Fingerprinting .

http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=9782321602a1ddd3d54a3e8a55e2dcae

(1) General . USCIS regulations in this chapter, including the instructions to benefit applications and petitions, require certain applicants, petitioners, beneficiaries, sponsors, and other individuals to be fingerprinted on Form FD-258, Applicant Card, for the purpose of conducting criminal background checks. On and after December 3, 1997, USCIS will accept Form FD-258, Applicant Card, only if prepared by a USCIS office, a registered State or local law enforcement agency designated by a cooperative agreement with USCIS to provide fingerprinting services (DLEA), a United States consular office at United States embassies and consulates, or a United States military installation abroad. (Amended effective 6/18/07; 72 FR 19100 )

(2) Fingerprinting individuals residing in the United States . Beginning on December 3, 1997, for naturalization applications, and on March 29, 1998, for all other applications and petitions, applications and petitions for immigration benefits shall be filed as prescribed in this chapter, without completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. After the filing of an application or petition, USCIS will issue a notice to all individuals who require fingerprinting and who are residing in the United States, as defined in section 101(a)(38) of the Act, and request their appearance for fingerprinting at a USCIS office or other location designated by USCIS, to complete Form FD-258, Applicant Card, as prescribed in paragraph (b)(9) of this section. (Amended effective 6/18/07; 72 FR 19100 )

(3) Fingerprinting individuals residing abroad . Individuals who require fingerprinting and whose place of residence is outside of the United States, must submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, at the time of filing the application or petition for immigration benefits. In the case of individuals who reside abroad, a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, is one prepared by USCIS, a United States consular office at a United States embassy or consulate or a United States military installation abroad. If an individual who requires fingerprinting and is residing abroad fails to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, at the time of filing an application or petition, USCIS will issue a notice to the individual requesting submission of a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. The applicant or petitioner will also be notified of the request for submission of a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. Failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, in response to such a request within t he time allotted in the notice will result in denial of the application or petition for failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. There is no appeal from denial of an application or petition for failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card. A motion to re-open an application or petition denied for failure to submit a properly completed Form FD-258, Applicant Card, will be granted only on proof that: (Introductory text amended effective 6/18/07; 72 FR 19100 )

Mr MC wrote:When dealing with someone who the police or deputy believe is illegal and is lying about their name, the police or deputy run their fingerprints through the FBI Rapid Response Center. About 30 minutes later they either reply with the persons real name or that the person is not in the system which means they have never been fingerprinted.

So in other words, if they haven't been finger printed then they are more than likely illegals. If this is what the law is allowing city and county law enforcment, why are they not implementing this? I know you can't speak for the county, but for the city you could answer this.

And the van load ( a driver with a MO DL and a passenger with a mexican ID) and 15-17 other passengers stacked in the back) of admitted illegals that the deputy stopped east of town a couple years ago could have been detained or subject to being detained. The infraction could have been having too many passengers to safely riding in a vehicle. Or something as simple as not enough seat belts for all passengers in the vehicle. But the deputy was told by the deputy's supervisor to let them go. Even though the deputy notified the supervisor of the problem with the amount of passengers in the vehicle. So in other words, the local department just turned their heads and let them go knowing that the law had been broked just because they didn't want to DEAL with this situation. The deputy on site of the stop did what the deputy was told per the supervisor. There were absolutely too many of the subjects stopped to be safely processed by one deputy 15 miles from civilization. The supervisor opted not to back up this deputy.

This is one reason I have a problem with what is going on in our city and county, if we make it easy for them to be here, or pass through, they will COME!!!!
As long as we are complacent with the illegals we come in contact with, the word will get around and more and more will come. And why not, we have jobs and no one to ask questions if they do have any contact with law enforcement. I would say the perfect hot bed for activity.

Unless of course they are natural born citizens who just happen to be of the same race or heritage of the illegals you are specifically concerned with. There are a great number of naturally born citizens that have migrated to where the work is that they have the most experience at.

You are probably right that some of the people that have come to Creekstone are illegal and have managed to blend in, but I feel certain that many of them are legal, and some number of them are naturally born citizens.

In my opinion, it is not a great enough percentage to persecute an entire race or heritage or perhaps even people that speak a specific language. Citizens either naturally born, or naturalized deserve all of the rights our constitution gives.

Patrick McDonald
Citizen

Patrick · Senior Member

S23246G wrote:

I would hate for it to seem that I am being too negative yet again by asking for clarification, but when local law enforcement DOES run into a van full of illegals (or those not able to show legality), then are they just let go and ignored because it is too much hassle, or do they contact ICE or any other federal law enforcement agency? From your article it would seem that they are let go. I realize that Deputies enforce State laws and County resolutions (which are much like City ordinances, but adopted for County use), and City Police enforce City ordinances, but are there no State laws on the books regarding illegal aliens? Maybe we should make being in this country (or State, or City) ILLEGALLY a State Law, or even a City Ordinance or County resolution.

So, Mr. McDonald, I'm curious... was that the first time you had heard of that article from the AP, and the first time you'd heard that Cowley County was now a "hot spot" for illegals stealing peoples identities? What did you think? Still think our way of life is in no jeapordy? Still think nothing should be done about it? Still think their money spends just as well as the next guys? I'm sorry to sound negative, but it's attitudes like that that will lead to this country being completely over ran, and our whole culture being turned on it's ear.

I sincerely hope it bothers you to know the mentioned facts, and that you find little ways to help, even if it means just voting for new laws. or enforcing existing laws that concern illegals.

I hope I wasn't too negative.

As stated in the first posting, unless the police can prove that an enforceable crime was committed they cannot detain the people. The local authorities have no authorization to hold them even if the authorities know for a fact these people are illegal immigrants - unless an enforceable crime is committed. The best the local authorities can do is to notify ICE and give as much information as possible.

As for Cowley County being a "Hot Spot" we probably did have some number of illegal people when Future Beef and again when Creekstone opened, but I can't imagine a large number continually flowing into the area. Once the jobs were filled they would have no other reason to be here. If I remember right there are only about 600 or 700 employees at Creekstone and a very large number of these people were already living in our area.

As for creating local laws, I am not a lawyer, but I would assume it would have been tried somewhere else in the state if not in the country. Not wanting to overlook the obvious I will put it to the City Attorney to be sure.

Patrick McDonald

redd rover · Senior Member

Mr MC Wrote: In my opinion, it is not a great enough percentage to persecute an entire race or heritage or perhaps even people that speak a specific language. Citizens either naturally born, or naturalized deserve all of the rights our constitution gives.

Mr MC, I am not sure you under stood what I said in my post. The aliens the deputy had contact with were ADMITTED illegals! Now, I don't remember saying to stop anyone that speaks spanish and take them to jail. On that one traffic stop alone, 15- 18 illegals could have been rerouted back to the country from whence they came except no one wanted to deal with them. Now multiply that by at least every officer in our county,city, state. That would be many illegals sent back to where they came. But every one is afraid of steping on toes. Well, I welcome any and all imigrants. Just do it legally. With the lax state of your local city, county and state governments they don't have to go by the laws of the land. We don't enforce them.

In speaking to a Polish friend of mine, (who by the way is very angered about the invasion of illegals). He was raised in a country that was very dangerous. He came to America and followed the laws of the land and got his citizenship the legal way. I am proud to work beside him. But he learned about the rights of this country and what a wonderful place it is to be. More so than most natural born citizens. Even he has a problem with the government allowing this invaision. He is a true American.

So yes Mr MC, in your opinion the percentage is not great enough to cause rifts, spoken like a true polititian. That is why we are in this mess.

saveacity · Member

redd rover wrote:

Mr MC Wrote: In my opinion, it is not a great enough percentage to persecute an entire race or heritage or perhaps even people that speak a specific language. Citizens either naturally born, or naturalized deserve all of the rights our constitution gives.

Mr MC, I am not sure you under stood what I said in my post. The aliens the deputy had contact with were ADMITTED illegals! Now, I don't remember saying to stop anyone that speaks Spanish and take them to jail. On that one traffic stop alone, 15- 18 illegals could have been rerouted back to the country from whence they came except no one wanted to deal with them. Now multiply that by at least every officer in our county,city, state. That would be many illegals sent back to where they came. But every one is afraid of stepping on toes. Well, I welcome any and all immigrants. Just do it legally. With the lax state of your local city, county and state governments they don't have to go by the laws of the land. We don't enforce them.

In speaking to a Polish friend of mine, (who by the way is very angered about the invasion of illegals). He was raised in a country that was very dangerous. He came to America and followed the laws of the land and got his citizenship the legal way. I am proud to work beside him. But he learned about the rights of this country and what a wonderful place it is to be. More so than most natural born citizens. Even he has a problem with the government allowing this invasion. He is a true American.

So yes Mr MC, in your opinion the percentage is not great enough to cause rifts, spoken like a true politician. That is why we are in this mess.

Redd Rover
Your statement it of a true American, i congratulate you on your response, it is week backed poll titans who try to spin on every dime, if you will watch the responses to these issues from our own local government you will notice that their campaign speachs were full of smoke and mirrors, we only have one commissioner who has backbone and i commend him very highly, Bold steps must be taken to get this city back on track, spin and trip is not the way Mr Patrick. your to obvious in your lack of knowing what is really happening to be able to effectively spin anyone with a 8th grade education

Patrick · Senior Member

saveacity wrote:

redd rover wrote:

Mr MC Wrote: In my opinion, it is not a great enough percentage to persecute an entire race or heritage or perhaps even people that speak a specific language. Citizens either naturally born, or naturalized deserve all of the rights our constitution gives.

Mr MC, I am not sure you under stood what I said in my post. The aliens the deputy had contact with were ADMITTED illegals! Now, I don't remember saying to stop anyone that speaks Spanish and take them to jail. On that one traffic stop alone, 15- 18 illegals could have been rerouted back to the country from whence they came except no one wanted to deal with them. Now multiply that by at least every officer in our county,city, state. That would be many illegals sent back to where they came. But every one is afraid of stepping on toes. Well, I welcome any and all immigrants. Just do it legally. With the lax state of your local city, county and state governments they don't have to go by the laws of the land. We don't enforce them.

In speaking to a Polish friend of mine, (who by the way is very angered about the invasion of illegals). He was raised in a country that was very dangerous. He came to America and followed the laws of the land and got his citizenship the legal way. I am proud to work beside him. But he learned about the rights of this country and what a wonderful place it is to be. More so than most natural born citizens. Even he has a problem with the government allowing this invasion. He is a true American.

So yes Mr MC, in your opinion the percentage is not great enough to cause rifts, spoken like a true politician. That is why we are in this mess.

Redd Rover
Your statement it of a true American, i congratulate you on your response, it is week backed poll titans who try to spin on every dime, if you will watch the responses to these issues from our own local government you will notice that their campaign speachs were full of smoke and mirrors, we only have one commissioner who has backbone and i commend him very highly, Bold steps must be taken to get this city back on track, spin and trip is not the way Mr Patrick. your to obvious in your lack of knowing what is really happening to be able to effectively spin anyone with a 8th grade education

I appreciate your concern for me.

I explained in detail that the local police and deputies have no authority. I don't know how to explain it any better. Yes, there is a possibility to create some local laws directed to illegal immigrants, but after some research I have found only 2 instances in the entire country. Both only involved housing and both made national headlines. Neither has shown any improvement in the situation. If you know of any other, please forward the information as I would be happy to look into anything that has evidence of working.

I am still not convinced that this problem is as important as many of the other issues. Judging by what I read hear, negativity is still the primary issue in our town. Sharing opinions is a great way to look at problems. I am having trouble understanding the reasons for ignoring the facts presented to continue pushing an opinion. If there are facts that I am unaware of I would gladly change my stand.

I am glad to share my opinion when asked, but if I am asked a question I respond with what I know or recall (to the best of my ability), and follow up later with researched answers. Rumor and gossip might have some validity in an opinion, but are not only useless but harmful when gathering facts. Anything I hear I research first, wasting a lot of time on rumor, before I decide if it has value. I do make my share of mistakes, usually trying to write out the information, but I do my best to make sure it is all out there for me and anyone else to make informed decisions with.

As for backbone.... I put myself on here, with my real name, for anyone to ask, suggest, opine, complain and of course to take pot shots at. I have nothing to prove and no chance of looking good in this. I'm here to try. Sometimes it is a little difficult, especially trying to dig through for the answers, but it is always public unless I think I might embarrass someone.

If you have any viable suggestions I could sure use them. With the information you provided I'm sure there is something positive that action can be taken on. Negative accusations and more rumors won't solve any problems. When the city (ie: the people) puts more effort into looking for workable solutions and positive impact all of us will see significant improvement. You may or may not believe me, but I'm still asking you to try.

Patrick McDonald

redd rover · Senior Member

This is a copy of an email I was recently sent from Sen. Pat Roberts. I had written him and explained what kinds of problems we were experiencing here in our community, and all over the state. I wanted to make sure that he knew that not all of us are content with the limp, lax way we are handling the problem of illegal immigration. I thought I would share with my fellow online posters.

August 14, 2007

Ms. XXXXXX XXXXXXX

XX XXX XXXX

Arkansas City, KS 67005

Dear Ms. XXXXXXX:

Thank you for your letter on immigration. I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Recently, the Senate debated S. 1639, the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act. In a procedural move, the Senate has been unable to end debate on the legislation. I voted against ending debate on the legislation because of efforts to keep senators from having their voices heard. This is not how the Senate is supposed to operate. In addition, the message I heard from Kansans was loud and clear they did not support a bill that rewards illegal behavior.

I oppose the bill for many reasons. My first concern with the bill is that it includes amnesty and rewards immigrants for illegal conduct. In addition, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) lacks the resources and management to make the so-called reforms work. I also oppose the bill because I believe it to be unworkable and impractical. Most of all, I disagree with the tactics. This was a back room deal and in shutting out many Senators from one of the most important issues of our time, the issue has been subjugated to politics and unworkable compromise.

I understand your concerns. Rest assured, I will carefully scrutinize proposals that affect our nation's immigration policies. Again thank you for taking the time to contact me. If you would like more information on issues before the Senate, please visit my website at http://roberts.senate.gov. You may also sign up on my home page for a monthly electronic newsletter that will provide additional updates on my work for Kansas.

With every best wish,

Sincerely,

Pat Roberts

-- Edited by redd rover at 22:44, 2007-08-16

redd rover · Senior Member

Saveacity wrote: Redd Rover
Your statement it of a true American, i congratulate you on your response, it is week backed poll titans who try to spin on every dime, if you will watch the responses to these issues from our own local government you will notice that their campaign speachs were full of smoke and mirrors, we only have one commissioner who has backbone and i commend him very highly, Bold steps must be taken to get this city back on track, spin and trip is not the way Mr Patrick. your to obvious in your lack of knowing what is really happening to be able to effectively spin anyone with a 8th grade education

Thank you saveacity, I too think that MR Khun could be a breath of fresh air for city government. OOOPS! Did I use his name?...... biggrin

We ALL knew who you were talking about. Go Mel!

redd rover · Senior Member

RE: Illegal immigrants Email from Att. General Morrison

Patrick · Senior Member

RE: Illegal immigrants

S23246G · Senior Member

This article was on YAHOO's front page.

Meatpacking Remakes Rural U.S. Towns
Sunday August 19, 4:45 am ET
By Roxana Hegeman, Associated Press Writer

Changes in Meatpacking Industry Remake Rural U.S. Towns in New Immigration Frontier

DODGE CITY, Kan. (AP) -- This is the home of Wyatt Earp and Bat Masterson, of Boot Hill and the Long Branch Saloon, of cattle drives, buffalo hunters and the romance of the American West. But that's the Dodge City of yesteryear.

Today, downtown has Mexican restaurants and stores more reminiscent of shops south of the border than Main Street Kansas. The city of 25,176 even has a new nickname: "Little Mexico."

Signs advertising "Envios a Mexico" -- retail outlets where workers send hard-earned wages back home to Mexico and other countries -- hang outside many Dodge City stores. Houses occasionally fly Mexican flags, whipped hard by the prairie winds.

Dodge City ... Cactus, Texas ... Fort Morgan, Colo. ... Postville, Iowa: For more than a hundred years, this region provided a bucolic idyll and a ready example of American life and values. Today, iconic farm towns struggle with a new economic model, one that requires a workforce that is poor and overwhelmingly Hispanic.

It's not easy. The immigrants who have flooded these communities are stretching schools and law enforcement. Still, at a time when other rural towns are slowly dying, Dodge City and meatpacking towns like it boast thriving economies.

"If these people can get past the gauntlet of the border, we welcome them here with open arms," said Ford County Sheriff Dean Bush, Dodge City's modern-day counterpart to Wyatt Earp.

But many of his fellow citizens seem lost. Randy Ford and his wife, Betty, have lived in Dodge City for 35 years. They no longer attend the city's Independence Day events. They can't understand what the singers -- Spanish crooners singing Latin favorites -- are saying.

"We don't go anymore because we don't want to be Mexican," he said. "We want to be American."

In Washington, the debate over immigration sometimes seems to be a clash of extremes. But here, in the wide-open spaces where one-dimensional economies stoke small towns, there is plenty of room for ambivalence.

HOW IT GOT THIS WAY

Just as the arrival of the Santa Fe Railroad here in 1872 brought white settlers to populate the dusty towns and farms of a fledging country, the relocation and consolidation of the meatpacking industry has transformed these icons of the American West. The result: diverse, multicultural communities that challenge breadbasket notions of wheat fields, white fences and even whiter demographics.

The transformation of the nation's meatpacking industry began in 1960 when plants began moving out of cities in favor of their livestock sources in right-to-work states like Kansas. The first big slaughterhouse came to Emporia in the 1960s, followed by plants near Garden City and in Dodge City in the 1980s.

For Dodge City -- famed as the "Queen of the Cowtowns" during its cowboy heyday -- the advent of the slaughter plants seemed a natural fit. Locals have long recognized that the odor of manure here is the smell of money.

"They are a major hub of business and economic activity and a huge employer," said Ted Schroeder, agricultural economist at Kansas State University. "You can't go into those communities without sensing the presence and importance of those large economic facilities. Everything around there is either working with, complementing or part of that industry."

Eventually, mom-and-pop meatpackers were swallowed up by giants like Tyson Foods Inc., Cargill Meat Solutions Corp., Swift & Co. and National Beef Packing Co.

Their massive slaughter plants today routinely sit on the outskirts of rural towns. Huge feedlots stretching at times beyond the horizon now dot the wind-swept prairie where buffalo once grazed.

When the wind blows just so, the stench can be overpowering.

WEIRD ECONOMICS

Arturo Ponce is a U.S. citizen now -- coordinator of the HIV/AIDS prevention program run by the United Methodist Mexican-American Ministries. But it wasn't so long ago that he lived in a dilapidated trailer, just down the street from the Cargill plant in Dodge City.

This, he recently told his 14-year-old son, was where your parents got their start in Kansas. Here, he said, we crowded with 13 other people, four families, into three bedrooms.

"The beef industry is hard work," he said. He would come home to the trailer after each shift drenched in sweat from trying to keep up with the production line. He and his brother-in-law each lost 25 pounds those first three months on the job.

Now, almost 20 years later, the same trailer remains crammed with meatpacking workers coming to and from their shifts.

"It is a cycle that continues to repeat itself," Ponce said. "It is the same story."

The same story: Decent wages are a magnet for poor immigrants. And the wages paid by the meatpackers are decent, though far from extravagant.

The poverty rate in Dodge City plunged from 28 percent in 1980 to 14 percent in 2000. The poverty rate also was halved in Guymon, Okla., where there are an estimated 600,000 head of cattle on farms within 25 miles of the Seaboard Foods plant. But no one is living high on the hog, or cow. Dodge City's per capita income of $15,538 in 2000 may be an improvement, but it still remains far below the $21,587 national average.

In Cactus, the average per capita income has increased, but only to $8,340. Many who work at the Swift plant in Cactus live in former military barracks or in dilapidated rental trailer homes where yards contain little more than dirt, weeds and rocks.

"A lot of people are working, but working at jobs that don't pay well," said Don Stull, a University of Kansas anthropology professor and industry expert.

It's a hard life. In Cactus, the population is more than 90 percent Latino. There are no doctors or banks. Most plant workers deal only in cash, making them easy targets for theft. As much as 70 percent of offenses in town relate to alcohol use, especially on weekend nights when cars cruise up and down the main drag for hours.

Dodge City grapples with drug trafficking as narcotics flow in across the Mexican border through the Hispanic community. Gangs are a problem, too. But there is some equanimity in a town infamous for its lawless Wild West history.

"Dodge City has always been a pretty wild Western town," said Bush, the sheriff, "and there are days when it still lives up to its name."

GOING TO SCHOOL

Alfredo Villegas was clearly frustrated as he struggled to read an English-language book in a small newcomer class in the Dodge City high school. Villegas, 15, has been in the U.S. for five months and his father works at Cargill. "I don't know what I want to be," he said, in Spanish. "I may not even graduate." Just as he struggles with his new language, the public schools are struggling with the new students who have come with families drawn to work in the meatpacking plants. Educators have found themselves grappling with language barriers, academic gaps and poverty.

School districts once troubled with aging and tax-resistant local populations and dwindling school enrollments suddenly had to deal with the crowded classrooms that came with young migrant families; Villegas' modern, sprawling school was built five years ago as enrollments boomed.

Dodge City school officials count 23 different languages spoken by immigrant families, though the town is overwhelmingly Latino.

About 44 percent of students in Dodge City have limited English proficiency, prompting the district to establish a "newcomer program" for immigrant students geared heavily toward language acquisition, and includes help from Spanish-speaking assistants.

Just a decade ago, about 70 percent of Dodge City students were English-speaking whites. Today, that statistic has flipped: about 70 percent of the 5,800 students who now attend Dodge City school are Hispanic, with non-Hispanic whites now comprising nearly 25 percent.

There has been some success. An analysis of high school graduation rates at meatpacking towns nationwide shows improvement between 1980 and 2000: up 9 percent in Dodge City; up 5 percent in Cactus; up 6 percent in Crete, Neb.

Still, graduation rates were below state averages. For example, the graduation rate of slightly over 17 percent in Cactus, Texas, was still well below the state average of nearly 76 percent or the national average of more than 80 percent.

In Postville, Iowa, visitors to Cora B. Darling elementary and middle school are greeted with a world map adorned with red-and-gold foil stars pasted on Russia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Israel, Peru, Costa Rica, Mexico and other nations. Each designates the home country to some of the school's 370 students.

"The biggest population coming in right now are from Guatemala," Postville principal Charlotte Tammel said. "The challenge for us is finding teachers who speak all these languages."

Earlier this year, Dodge City teacher Debby Chipman gathered a small group of her second and third graders for an English lesson. Three of them speak Spanish, one boy speaks Vietnamese, the other boy speaks only Quiche, a Guatemalan dialect.

Even as the schools spread American culture to newcomers, the immigrants reciprocate, infusing their schools with their own cultures.

Everyone on the high school soccer roster in Liberal, Kan. -- players, coaches, trainers and managers -- is Hispanic, and during soccer season in the fall, the ambiance around a Liberal game takes aim at the American stereotype of sweater-clad soccer moms in SUVs.

Though Friday night football still matters in the heartland, soccer clearly has a home here. Shouts of "Aqui, aqui!" blend easily with "Here, here!"

CULTURE CLASHES

On the high plains of northern Colorado, the latest wave of settlers to hit Morgan County has some worried that the character of its largest city -- Fort Morgan, with its neat lawns decorated with gnomes or holiday ornaments -- would be altered beyond recognition.

Cargill operates a slaughterhouse here, employing about 20 percent of the town's population and processing 4,300 head of cattle per day. Morgan County saw its Hispanic population double in the 1990s -- jumping to 8,473 by the 2000 U.S. Census.

More than a century before the meatpackers consolidated and Cargill Inc. set up shop in Morgan County, Germans who had settled the Volga region of Russia arrived here after Czar Alexander II took away their autonomy and made them subject to the military draft.

"It's been a German town for a long time, every morning at 5 o'clock, 5 or 6 o'clock, it's like a cuckoo clock, German ladies out sweeping their sidewalks," said longtime resident Perry Roberts. "And now they're (immigrants) not mowing their lawn, and so they're trying to pass laws to get people to keep up their lawns and not park their car on them."

In 2004, community leaders and businesses began work to establish a group called OneMorgan County to help newcomers learn about health care services, community resources and law enforcement -- and to ease fears among longtime residents.

Postville, Iowa, had long been a meatpacking town, but the old HyGrade slaughterhouse had been shuttered for seven years when New York butcher and entrepreneur Aaron Rubashkin bought it in 1987.

The city has been in transition ever since.

A stream of Hasidic Jews soon followed, providing the executive staff to run the operation and the rabbis needed to slaughter animals in accordance with strict kosher rules.

The first wave of workers required to augment the locals on the payroll were eastern Europeans, immigrants from Bosnia, Poland, Russia and former Soviet Republics who had initially spent time in bigger East Coast cities before moving to Iowa.

But in the last decade, Hispanics have become the majority. The result is that a town that barely covers two square miles is home to people from 24 nationalities speaking 17 languages. In 1990, Postville's population was 1,472; now, it is estimated at more than 2,500, nearly 33 percent foreign-born.

Last year, councilman Jeff Reinhardt caused a stir by taking aim at two of the city's ethnic groups in a letter to the local newspaper. Without naming any group, his targets were clear.

"One group wants to isolate itself ... and wanting a different day for the Sabbath," he wrote. Another "sends money back to foreign countries and brings a lack of respect for our laws and culture, which contributes to unwed mothers, trash in the streets, unpaid bills, drugs, forgery and other crimes."

That's bigotry, cried local religious leaders -- but understandable, they said, in a time of wholesale change.

HERE TO STAY

Shift change at the National Beef complex in Dodge City, and Martin Rosas and his crew are passing out flyers at the entrance, recruiting colleagues to join a union. A plant security officer sits in a nearby vehicle, with a camera.

Rosas, secretary-treasurer of the United Food and Commercial Workers local, seeks a better deal for workers at the nonunion National Beef. "We can no longer witness this kind of treatment for our people," he said.

Rosas, 36, is himself a Mexican immigrant, and now a naturalized citizen. He has watched Dodge City grow more accepting of its Hispanic newcomers.

"We feel more welcome -- we feel at home now," he said.

And more willing to assert themselves.

In Cactus, Hispanics dominate politics. The town's population became predominantly Hispanic by the 1990s, and by the end of that decade, Hispanics began to be elected to the city council.

Now, all but one member is Hispanic.

"Without this plant I don't know what would happen," said Mayor Luis Aguilar, who slipped into the country illegally from Mexico 30 years ago, later became a U.S. citizen, and now owns the town's only grocery store, numerous rental properties and a 575-acre ranch.

Some immigrants come to the American prairie for the jobs, but end up staying for something else. Jose Flores, who calls himself a "Mexican hillbilly," never felt at home in Los Angeles. He was drawn to a meatpacking job in Dodge City because he wanted to raise his growing family in a small town.

When he arrived in 1987, the only Mexican-owned business in town was a secondhand store. Today the town brims with thriving Mexican shops; Flores owns a restaurant in nearby Spearville and a real estate office in Dodge City.

But Flores is most proud of his children. They've either gone on to their own successful careers or are in schools and colleges preparing for them.

"The packing house brought us here," Flores said. "But our families have surpassed that."

Associated Press reporters P. Solomon Banda in Fort Morgan, Betsy Blaney in Cactus, Steve Brisendine in Liberal and Todd Dvorak in Postville contributed to this report.

------------------END OF ARTICLE------------------------------

So....... STILL think our way of life is in no jeapordy?

I can't wait to see how this town looks in 20 years! Hopefully I will be looking from a distance.

redd rover · Senior Member

Mr. MC wrote: I have also been given information on what the State of Oklahoma has done recently. It is called the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007 . It can be found at: http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2007-08bills/HB/HB1804_int.rtf . According to reports there are and will be a number of very expensive legal battles. The outcome of this might make it much easier for it or something similar to be passed here in Kansas.

Thank you for posting this information. I can see that the people and polititians of Oklahoma are on the ball. Even if the Federal government is slacking. I am disappointed in the State of Kansas in not reacting to this invasion. I believe it is the lobbiest for the big meat packers that keep them from persuing an answer to our questions on this.I would say that big money is talking in Topeka. We as citizens need to contact our representitives and demand something be done at a state level first, and then the Federal level to follow. If they don't move on this, then vote them out and get someone in that will. Rememeber what Mr MC says, "public servants work for the people". Not for a choice few either, they work for the majority. They need to remember that.

It isn't rocket science, if the state of Oklahoma makes it unlawful for aliens to be there, or even pass through, they will fog to places that have no consequences, LIKE KANSAS. Where law enforcement will turn a blind eye to illegals, by law. As it seems, Kansas seems so despirate for industry they over look the consequences of these meat packing plants, just like Arkcity did when they allowed Creekstone to build here. With the attitude, lets get them in here, and worry later about anything that will come up. I remember the promise of hundreds of jobs for the people of Cowley county when they promised to build here. Of course they were more than likely snickering in their sleeves when they posted "wanted workers" in the meat packing plants in Iowa, Nebraska, Texas and ect....... When they posted those signs, those jobs were filled. Not by many citizens of Cowley County, but by new comers.
Our polititians let us, the citizens, down on this. It is up to the ones now to fix it. To lead us forward, not like a lamb to slaughter. Polititians need to have the intestanal fortitude to stand up for the citizens, not against them. Only time will tell.

S23246G · Senior Member

I am glad I'm not the only one who feels so strongly on this issue.

AC1st · Member

http://immigrationcounters.com/datasource.html

This should help anyone feeling weak on the issue.

redd rover · Senior Member

http://immigrationcounters.com/datasource.html

This should help anyone feeling weak on the issue.

WOW AC1ST! I need to spend more time on that site because there was so much information, but thank you for finding this site and pointing it out to us. This site has some alarming information!!!!! Thanks again!

Jerry · Newbie

Its nice to read an article about illegals here in AC. I thought I was alone on this. Dragon

Bruce · Member

Mr. Commissioner you can make your own laws governing the Illegal immigrants, quit hiding behind the Federal Government. Why are there other towns making laws yet you continue hiding. If you want them here make laws and if you don't wnat them here make some laws but quit hiding behind the Feds.

S23246G · Senior Member

Patrick,
Has it ever been considered that our local officers can be deputized by ICE to enforce federal immigration laws? Many cities and counties are doing just that. So that way, at the very least, when an illegal is arrested for a crime they can be dealt with? I wouldn't expect them to hunt down illegals all day and night (although I wouldn't mind!), but at least they could deal with known illegals without having to just turn a blind eye.

To me, having law enforcement who cannot enforce the law renders them impotent. In my eyes, it would be the same as if they saw someone steal a stereo from a car and simply did nothing.

Patrick · Senior Member

S23246G wrote:

Patrick,
Has it ever been considered that our local officers can be deputized by ICE to enforce federal immigration laws? Many cities and counties are doing just that. So that way, at the very least, when an illegal is arrested for a crime they can be dealt with? I wouldn't expect them to hunt down illegals all day and night (although I wouldn't mind!), but at least they could deal with known illegals without having to just turn a blind eye.

To me, having law enforcement who cannot enforce the law renders them impotent. In my eyes, it would be the same as if they saw someone steal a stereo from a car and simply did nothing.

I cannot say that it has ever been considered. I am not sure that it is possible. I did a little research, though probably not enough, and have not found any instances of local law enforcement being "deputized" by ICE. If you have any information on such I would love to see it.

I don't want to offer any excuses, but I can't keep up with all of the information. This in particular has been a federal or state issue and I have seen no local options that have been effective. If there has been something that has worked on the local level, not just on the books but has proof of accomplishing something, it would be worth looking into.

On the other hand, if it has not been proven to be effective, would you want to gamble our resources on it?

Show me what you've got and let's see what we can do. You can email it directly to me at pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net

S23246G · Senior Member

Patrick wrote:

S23246G wrote:

Patrick,
Has it ever been considered that our local officers can be deputized by ICE to enforce federal immigration laws? Many cities and counties are doing just that. So that way, at the very least, when an illegal is arrested for a crime they can be dealt with? I wouldn't expect them to hunt down illegals all day and night (although I wouldn't mind!), but at least they could deal with known illegals without having to just turn a blind eye.

To me, having law enforcement who cannot enforce the law renders them impotent. In my eyes, it would be the same as if they saw someone steal a stereo from a car and simply did nothing.

I cannot say that it has ever been considered. I am not sure that it is possible. I did a little research, though probably not enough, and have not found any instances of local law enforcement being "deputized" by ICE. If you have any information on such I would love to see it.

I don't want to offer any excuses, but I can't keep up with all of the information. This in particular has been a federal or state issue and I have seen no local options that have been effective. If there has been something that has worked on the local level, not just on the books but has proof of accomplishing something, it would be worth looking into.

On the other hand, if it has not been proven to be effective, would you want to gamble our resources on it?

Show me what you've got and let's see what we can do. You can email it directly to me at pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net

48 arrested in I-70 patrol sweep

ICE-deputized troopers round up suspected illegal immigrants

By Kirk Mitchell Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 08/01/2007 01:11:49 AM MDT

Recently trained Colorado troopers arrested 48 suspected illegal immigrants in a sweep along Interstate 70 on Tuesday near the Eisenhower Tunnel, officials said.

"That's a good big number for us," said Jeff Copp, federal Immigration and
Customs Enforcement district chief based in Denver.

It was the first roundup by Colorado State Patrol officers deputized by ICE to
process suspected illegal immigrants.

In the joint operation between ICE and the State Patrol, three cars were stopped
for traffic violations and a fourth was stranded beside the road, said state
Master Trooper Ron Watkins.

All of the immigrants who were detained were from Mexico, ICE spokesman Carl
Rusnok said. An infant who is a U.S. citizen was with one family of illegal
immigrants, Rusnok said. The baby was to return to Mexico on Tuesday, he said.

The cars had as many as 15 people inside, Rusnok said.

State troopers began at 9 a.m. to look for possible illegal immigrants on I-70
between the Eisenhower Tunnel and Vail Pass.

Troopers could stop cars only for traffic violations, Watkins said. When they
suspected that occupants of the cars might be illegal immigrants, they
investigated further.

The suspected illegal immigrants will be taken to an Aurora detention center
before they are deported to their home countries, Copp said.

The Colorado State Patrol unit of about 25 troopers completed training at the beginning of July, Watkins said. They were trained by federal agents to operate under the authority of ICE, Copp said. The training is part of a national program to fight illegal immigration.

---------- End of Article----------------------

A quick search brought up that article, as well as this very informative law overview:
http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL32270_03112004.pdf

Patrick · Senior Member

I read the article, and looked at the website:

S23246G provided this information:

A quick search brought up that article, as well as this very informative law overview:
http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL32270_03112004.pdf

This information tends to repeat the information I have already provided.

"Congress, through various amendments to the INA, has gradually broadened the

authority for state and local law enforcement officials to enforce immigration law,

and some recent statutes have begun to carve out possible state roles in the

enforcement of civil matters."

"Immigration law provides for both criminal punishments(e.g., alien smuggling, which is prosecuted in the courts) and

civil violations (e.g.,

lack of legal status, which may lead to removal through a separate administrative

system). The states and localities have traditionally only been permitted to directly

enforce the criminal provisions, whereas the enforcement of the civil provisions has

been viewed as a federal responsibility with states playing an incidental supporting

role."

"Although there is quite a bit of debate with respect to state and local law

enforcement officers authority to enforce immigration law (see discussion below),

as a matter of practice, it is permissible for state and local law enforcement officers

to inquire into the status of an immigrant during the course of their normal duties in

enforcing state and local law. This practice allows state and local law enforcement

officers to play an indirect role that is incidental to their general criminal enforcement

authority."

"For example, when state or local officers question the immigration status of

someone they have detained for a state or local violation, they may contact an ICE

agent at the Law Enforcement Support Center (LESC).5 The federal agent may then

place a detainer on the suspect, requesting the state official to keep the suspect in

custody until a determination can be made as to the suspects immigration status.

However, the continued detention of such a suspect beyond the needs of local law

enforcement, and solely designed to aid in enforcement of federal immigration laws,

may be unlawful."

*If you read "detained" as "taken to jail", a traffic violation would generally not qualify.

"The distinction between civil and criminal

violations in the INA has been seen to suggest a bifurcated role for states and

localities. For example, state and local law enforcement officers cannot arrest

someone solely for illegal presence for the purpose of deporting them because it is

a civil violation"

"To the degree that it is not preempted, the authority of state and local law

enforcement officers to investigate and arrest for violations of federal law is

determined by reference to state law.22 This may be done through express

authorization in state law. However, this may not be necessary according to some

recent decisions from the Tenth Circuit that appear to suggest that state and local law

enforcement officers may possess inherent authority within their respective

jurisdictions to investigate and make arrests for criminal immigration matters"

* Our state has not provided express authorization, nor will it matter until it clears the Tenth Circuit.

"For example, a 1983 statement issued by the Reagan Justice

Department emphasized cooperation and joint federal/state law enforcement

operations but still made clear that only INS could make arrests for civil immigration

violations and that state and local cooperation consisted primarily of notifying INS

about, and detaining, suspected illegal aliens taken into police custody for state/local

violations."

I could go on, but these quotes reiterate my previous posts about what local law enforcement is allowed to do. Changes would have to be made at the State level and Federal assistance and training would have to be brought in to get the kind of service you described. This is still possible, but it must be brought to our state and local representatives. At the local level our hands are completely tied.

I do appreciate the information, but it is not something we can use locally. This may eventually lead to something though. There still might be something else out there that can work. Don't give up, if you find something good I would be interested in following up.

motherof2 · Senior Member

If you are going to look at Creekstone, don't stop there. You might want to check out Rubbermaid. Workforce is hiring them left and right. By the way, isn't Workforce operated by the government unemployment agency?
I know Rubbermaid says they can not get any one to come to work who can pass a drug test (yet another subject which needs to be addressed in our community), so they are taking what they can get I guess. They have not considered, though, raising the wages to make it worth the legal citizens who are not on drugs time to work there. Their hours and working conditions are not exactly desirable. (Not to mention the health insurance might as well be non-existant).
The kicker, though... if Newell Rubbermaid had to raise wages to make their coolers, would they just shut the factory down and send the jobs to China where they can use slave labor? Probably so! Are the illegal hispanics keeping the doors open here for the few who still want to legally work in Cowley County? Maybe.
However, I know that as a married mother of two it would not pay off for me to work there after buying my gas and paying daycare expenses. Now I see why so much of our community go on welfare. Sometimes it pays better... (Unless you live 2-3 families per home, carpool, grandparents or relatives watch your kids and you are not paying income taxes).
They main problem I have with the illegals was when I went to enroll my 4 year old son at Jefferson. He had already met the teacher, had all of the supplies I purchased packed in his back pack and sitting by the door when I received a phone call. Two weeks before classes were to begin, they called to tell me that they did not have room for my son in their 4 year old program. They said that there were too many kids enrolled and they were giving it to the ones who needed it the most. They kindly pointed out that many of them did not speak English, and this qualified them over my son. So, after waiting anxiously for 2 years to go to school, I had to break my sons heart. Instead of giving up, I drove him to Winfield every day to a private school.
Now, I do not have a problem with illegals wanting to educate their kids! What would our city be like with uneducated illegal immigrants running the streets? (I think most of the kids are actually legal as they were probably born here to illegal parents. Wasn't it about 5-6 years ago that their population moved in? I'm sure they all have kids now.) My gripe is this...
IF YOU WILL NOT PREVENT THEM FROM BEING HERE, THEN MAKE SURE MY CHILDREN ARE NOT ROBBED OF THE SAME OPPORNITIES THEIR KIDS GET!!! REMEMBER, I PAY TAXES FOR THESE THINGS, THEY DO NOT!
If you want to accomodate them, you had better build more schools at the tax payers expense. Personally, I think that any parent enrolling their child in public school who does not have legal citizenship should be a monthly tuition to offset the expense we are enduring.

By the way, my kids do not go to public elementry school and I will probably home school through junior high. I have no faith in the public school system after what they put us through. That was just wrong!

redd rover · Senior Member

Motherof2,
I am so sorry that your child was left with no other option than to go to Winfield schools. This is a classic example of what a few of the loyal posters on this forum have been trying to convey. Some see us as a negative few in our community and ignore out pleas to right this wrong to our local long time residents. Others see this invasion, as a financial opportunity to keep money flowing into the city. We will see how they feel when they are not running the city, and things are out of their hands in a few years. IT WILL HAPPEN. As it has already happend in Dodge city. We are just a few years behind them. For me, my children are no longer here in the school systems, that is a huge relief for me. But I know there are other young parents like you that want to give their children a good life here in the area where you grew up and times have changed. Home school may be your best option. Or if you could afford private school that may be one. I have to stop and think about the "no child left behind" program. It may work great for those who are very poor or disagvantaged. And for those who are very rich, they can afford private school. It is the middle class family that is punished now days. Not wealty enough for private school, not poor enough for public school. Go figure?

S23246G · Senior Member

Motherof2,
Thank you for bringing that story to our attention. Although it burns my butt to hear about things like that, it should be out there for everyone to know. It's sad to think that Illegal Aliens are being given better treatment than we are, and it's even sadder to think that it will only get worse. The future of this country is in great jeapordy, but no one wants to be called a racist for talking about it. I say build a wall, and give us back our country, before it is so far gone that we will never be able to get it back.

Take a minute to watch this... it has many facts that may surprise you/make you angry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY6t2ckpb5g

A few key words to search for on youtube: La Reconquista, Aztlan, illegal immigration, immigration watchdog

S23246G · Senior Member

Patrick,

There is a way for Cities to enforce immigration rights through a government program. The city must apply for it though. I do not have the information, but if you are interested, you could contact ICE for the specifics.

Or you could just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. That's worked great up to now.